Things are getting interesting…
ABC affiliate WKRP Channel 2 in Nashville did a story on the Former Muslims United ad placed on a Lamar Advertising digital billboard near the Stone’s River Mall in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. FMU colleague and executive director Nonie Darwish was interviewed as were a cross section of the community who had viewed the ad. Darwish said:
“I have no problem with religious aspects of Islam but Islam is majority a political system,” she told News 2. We are trying to alert the public. I don’t want to see it because they’re aiming at the Bible belt.”
Watch the WKRP news video. The WKRP news report, follows:
MURFREESBORO, Tenn. – The controversy over plans to expand the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro and construction a new mosque in Rutherford County continues.
The latest outburst against the mosque is an electronic billboard near the Stones River Mall.
The billboard, paid for by former Muslims, reads, “Stop the Murfreesboro mosque” and lists the Web site of Former Muslims United, an organization made up of people who used to be Muslim, sharing their opposition to Islam.
Nonie Darwish is a member of the California-based organization.
“I have no problem with religious aspects of Islam but Islam is majority a political system,” she told News 2. “We are trying to alert the public.”
The green background represents the Saudi National flag with the Muslim profession of faith on it.
According to Former Muslims United, the children on the billboard represent the target of the threat.
Darwish said, “I don’t want to see it because they’re aiming at the Bible belt.”
The billboard is the latest in the controversy that began weeks ago when the Rutherford County Planning Commission approved the project.
Mosque protestors are planning to present a petition to the Rutherford County Commission at the commission’s next meeting in August.
Because county officials already approved the proposal, it is solely up to them whether the project will continue.
Wow. I mean, really, that’s all I can think of to say. Just wow.
I guess we conveniently forgot to mention the quite substantial number of revolutions that have taken place in non muslim majority populations.
Or we conveniently decided to turn people being fed up with corruption, arbitrary arrests, and miserable conditions into a purely religious issue in order to facilitate a diatribe. Strangely enough, I have a feeling that if it would have been a nonmuslim majority population, that tangent wouldn’t even have come up in these remarks
But whatever
Please give me a moment while I find my notice to depose in thirty days or less. You know, all of us Muslims have one, just in case.
Other than that, everyone have a fabulous weekend
even if it means barricading yourself in your basement desperately trying to stop Shariah from coming to a street corner near you, or continuing to gather up any and all new stories you can find of the worst behaviors by Muslims possible to keep on bolstering your case, and fooling everyone with the utilization of lies of omission. For every horror story posted that was done by a Muslim, I can guarantee you that I can find one done by a non Muslim.
And lest you fear, here is what’s true:
YOU DON”T EVER HAVE TO SET FOOT INSIDE OF A MASJID IF YOU DON”T WANT TO.
No, honestly, you don’t. You can spend your entire life spitting tobacco and crushing beer cans against your forehead if you want to. Your choice.
So shame on these anti masjid brigaders for trying to instill fear.
But even so
I sincerely wish you long life and good health
Really, I mean that, and I hope that certain people have all the access to medication that they might ever need.
Salam
For Ken Maynard:
Anne, I am going to endeavour to answer that.
I may not ever step into a Mosque, but Mosque’s have entered into my society; that does affect my world & my life whether I step into a Mosque or not. Islam considers itself on a mission, TO INTENTIONALLY CHANGE THE LIFE & GOVERNANCE OF ALL MANKIND.
All must ~submit~ to the rule of Muhammad; & no developed legislature or court is allowed to over-rule this 7th century tribal brigand.
Many cultures & societies have revolutions, usually in response to unsatisfactory conditions or injustice. (Success depends not on their capacity to get rid of a bad government, but on their capacity to install a better one) I am proud of the Reformation (a revolution in its time) Americans are proud of their revolution. Most revolutions TRADE UP to some type of improvement. Islamic rarely bring about an improvement in government.
Few if any will miss the aging despots currently being deposed in the Middle East. Yet amongst all the populist hysteria, I have not seen any one stand up with a political & economic & birth management program to govern a country.
When I visited Mosques in NZ during the 1990’s; Muslims would come to me crying… ~Please, please get rid of Saddam, he is a terrible man. We have excellent leaders in waiting, who will take over when he is gone~ Courtesy of the US Saddam is now long gone, as for the excellent leaders in waiting, both Iraq & the world are still in waiting, in waiting, in waiting.
The longest running rule of law democracy in Islam is Pakistan. Asystem installed by the British, who being the parent of American, NZ, AU & Canadian democracy have proven credentials in democracy & in rule of law.
I append below an item from the NZ Herald on the state of democracy in Pakistan,…
……………Extract from NZ Herald, 4th March 2011.
Pakistan politician assassinated for speaking out
Rarely have Pakistan’s religious minorities and liberals felt more beleaguered. Less than two months after the killing of Salmaan Taseer, another government minister has been assassinated in a hail of bullets.
On this occasion, the killers were Taleban militants rather than a bodyguard.
Shahbaz Bhatti, the only Christian member of the Cabinet, received death threats because of his outspoken wish to reform blasphemy laws. One thing has become very clear: anyone in Pakistan who dares speak out against these laws instantly becomes a target.
For Pakistan’s minorities, the feeling is nothing less than despair. “We are all feeling very shocked, very shaken,” said Father Abid Saeed, a senior Catholic priest from Lahore.
The blasphemy laws impose the death penalty for insulting Islam.
Gunmen ambushed Bhatti outside his mother’s home in Islamabad and sprayed his car with at least 10 bullets, killing him instantly. The assassination was chillingly similar to that of Taseer, the Governor of Punjab, who was slain by his own bodyguard in January.
The assassination was claimed by “the al-Qaeda organisation and the Punjabi Taleban”. Before speeding away, the killers left behind pamphlets boasting of their act.
“The only punishment for blasphemy against the Prophet is death,” the pamphlet in Urdu said.
“A white car stopped near us at a crossing,” Bhatti’s driver Gul Sher, who was slightly injured, said. “Four people were sitting in the car. One of them got out with a Kalashnikov … He came in front of the car and opened fire. I ducked. Minister died on the spot.”
The Minorities Minister had been receiving threats from militant groups for some time. In a video broadcast before his death he said: “The forces of violence, militant banned organisations, the Taleban and al-Qaeda want to impose the radical philosophy in Pakistan. Whoever stands against their radical philosophy, they threaten them.”
Christians are mourning the loss of their most prominent political leader.
“We’ve been attacked many, many times in our history,” said Shimon Gill of the All Pakistan Minority Alliance. “But now we have been orphaned. Who will speak up for us now?”
In Bhatti’s village, Christians torched tyres, beat their chest in protest and denounced the killers.
The Pakistan Government claims that after Taseer’s assassination by a member of the police supposed to be guarding him, Bhatti refused to have bodyguards.
But his associates said he was denied the security he asked for, and was not given a bulletproof vehicle.
Bhatti, a Catholic member of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party, told friends he was prepared to die in pursuit of rights for his community. “These threats … cannot change my opinion and principles,” he said. “I would prefer to die for my principles, and for the justice of my community, rather than compromise on these threats.”
Human rights groups said the situation laid bare the government’s policy of appeasement towards extremists.
Since Taseer’s assassination, the religious right has gone from strength to strength, mounting huge demonstrations in support of the country’s blasphemy laws and exalting his assassin.
(Note to Anne, the west has its screwball killers too, but crowds DO NOT exalt them as popular heroes. We bring them to trial & take them out of circulation forever. km)
For the country’s liberals, those who covet the Pakistan envisaged by founder Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who said there should be “no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another”, there are few heroes left.
The Pakistan People’s Party has made clear it no longer has any plans to reform the blasphemy laws.
Liberal Pakistanis used to relish the fact the religious parties always did poorly at the polls. Now they are confronting the reality that it no longer matters: if the country’s purported progressive party has been chased away from such important issues, it undermines their election success.
Raza Rumi, a journalist from Lahore, posted a blog saying: “Sometimes it feels we are living in the Stone Age, where no dissent and no call for a tolerant society is possible.”
– INDEPENDENT…. Extract from NZ Herald… ends
Anne, I will support any revolution which deposes a despotic regime to TRADE UP to something better; but I see little point to revolutions which can’t form a better government.
If Muslims liquidate any Congressman who debates issues or passes legislation they don’t like, they have destroyed MY democracy. If they kill judges for ruling against them, they destroy MY justice system. If they require me to respect Islam or MY family will suffer the same fate, they are controlling MY life. If they require me to respect Islam or be placed on medication, they are taking over MY life. This affects MY life; whether I decide to step into a Mosque or not.
Hitler, Stalin, Islam, all of them liquidate those who will not yield to their tyranny, or try to declare them psychiatric cases. ~How drearily the same all the despots of history, how wondrously different the Saints~ (C.S. Lewis)
Anne, you & others keep saying Salam (peace) ~Think ye I am come to bring peace on earth, nay rather divisions~ Some things are that Godless, no righteous God can make peace with them.
God in his heaven grieves for all Muslims lost in the darkness which is Islam, & desires they be redeemed back to him through his Son, Christ Jesus. We will continue to work for the redemption of all Islam, while safeguarding ourselves as necessary.
CHRIST be with you.
Ken Maynard. Webb… http://www.communichristi.org.nz
Hey, if you want to continue to see all 1.8 billion of us as adhering to the philosophy of blood thirsty mania, you go right ahead. You are doing the same thing you always do, which is using events to define the mindset/approach of an entire group. Fact is, there have been other groups cheering violent actions as well. Fact is, I can go online every single day and read through pages and pages of discussion board commentaries written by people who would really like to see me dead, and who exhibit great joy at the news of anything bad happening to Muslims, and believe me, there are many. (A disturbing number of them also like to throw comments in the mix about Christ, peace be upon him, being the only way. How sad for Christ, peace be upon him, to be an excuse for people like that) Is this not a cheering group as well? So Ken, this craziness inherent in a subset of individuals cuts both ways, However, I have no illusions of changing your mentality. It is enough for me that I know what I am about, I know what I experience in my masjid, I know that neither I, or any Muslim I have ever even been remotely in contact with espouses the bloodthirsty rampaging attitude that you seem to think we do. Dude, honestly, I don’t even own bug spray. And yes, if push came to shove I would fight, as a matter of protection or defense, although frankly I would really rather not.
I have friends of all religions, including Tibetan Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Pentecostals, Mormons, and a smattering of atheists as well. This should be evidence enough that I am not out to change or manipulate anyone to adopt to my way of life, which I indeed came to completely by choice. The Qur’an states many times that the prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him, was sent only as a “Warner”, however, whether or not people decide to follow is up to them. We are not allowed to force anyone, and doing so is clearly against how we are instructed to behave. . That is the fact of the matter, and this fact does not change regardless anyone’s behavior. And if you are thinking of answering me with the “fighting verses”, don’t bother, because I know what they are about. While it’s been said often enough, it still hasn’t sunk in: you are welcome to criticize the behavior of some Muslims you are welcome to say that you don’t like or understand some points, but you are not welcome to spread lies about Islam. Why? Because it’s snarky, counterproductive, and undermining. In fact, if only as a matter of respect to its adherents, we really shouldn’t be lying about any religion, should we?
But naturally these are wasted words, because you will continue to attribute an agenda to me that I don’t have, and you will continue to somehow extrapolate the fact that I really only want to have my place of worship and to practice my religion unencumbered as evidence that I am pushing my way onto you. I continue to be puzzled over what exactly it is that I am forcing you to do. If you honestly believe that allowing Muslims to openly practice equates forcing you to submit to a Sharia State, then you are in spite of your verbosity and ‘evidence’, tragically ignorant.
Be that as it may, I think it is safe to say that your politeness is a thin veneer at best, hiding enormous amounts of disdain, contempt, and dare I say, paranoia given that you seem to think I harbor fantasies of stringing you or any nonmuslim up at the end of a sword. As such, I am fully aware that any attempt to reach understanding is thwarted from the outset. But then again, it is not, as I said, out of any illusion of making a dent in your views that I have said this, but because I know and I present to others evidence by my behavior that I am not as how you would seemingly have me be. And if I have made this clear, then I consider my end of the discussion to be a success, whether it influenced you in any way or not.
And yes, I will continue to say Salam
In spite of what you personally think that God thinks of that.
But maybe not to you, because it really seems to bug you
So have a nice day.
So Ken, I just had a look at your website
And I have one thing to say to you
What a twisted, insulting liar you are.
And I was right, your politeness is but a thin veneer
You are appalling.
dripping out lies, insults and hatred towards Islam like a venomous snake on speed.
I could not find a single thing that you claimed about Islam or the prophet, peace be upon him, that was actually true
Alhamdulilah for showing me a reminder of how not to be
And Allah is the best of planners.
As salamu aleykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu sister Anne. SO, you see, in my previous posts my challenges have not been answered, NOT ONE. Just bunch of political rhetoric, biased one at best… bothers me not at all, because I expect it. I expect it from people half the world away, to meddle in someone else’s backyard, and I say so because NZ is a long way away from Murfreesboro.
As far as Ken is concerned, he has lost all credibility with me. And if I remember correctly, he once said that he “ended the debate” and then after some time, he must have become inspired again, to suddenly “stick and run” and I mean he shows up, throws some more bull, then says he will not return and posts his website.
Funny are the people from NZ… but alhamdulillah, when they cannot debate in an open debate, they will hide behind their one sided websites. However it is, we have thousands sites as well…
So, sister Anne, there is no need to waste your time with Ken and the ones like him, our past encounter testifies who and what he is. 🙂
As salamu aleykum
Allahu Akbar
La Ilaha Ila Allah Muhammadu Rasululah!
Peace
Abu Ahmed
The people of the United states has FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Does that not mean ALL religions ? I guess the ignorant people of Murfreesboro read it as freedom of all Christian religion.
Do we HATE christians for the acts of KKK or the bombers of Oklahoma city ? They were Christians. Oh but they were fanatical Christians. Uh huh, so were the 9/11 terrorists
So are the people of murfreesboro also fanatical and terrorists ?
You can answer that question yourself, please do not be a sheep and investigate for yourself.
Wow. In the fashion of Murfreesboro’s people, let’s make a blanket statement about Americans–this is why the world calls you ignorant, obnoxious, and racist!
I hope the opposition of this mosque watched The O’Reilly Factor today. There was a lady from Syria talking about the cruelty of Shriah Law on women, and how these hoggie freaks oppress women. She wrote a book called “When God Hates”. She seen first hand what these freaks believe in. I think they need to get out of the USA, cause they are here to covert this country to IslamaNutzSac.
I watched the show on CNN last night, and that sweet little girl that wants the mosque, can move her azz to Libya or Syria and learn how her people really feel about her when they carve her body, or stone her for blowing hoggie boys.
GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY. We did not fight for YOUR freedom, we fought for ours.
We all know you have an agenda, and any American with half a brain and is not naive, knows this. Just look at your side of the world, and what you brought to our side. Death
JN, you can call us arrogant, ignorant, racist, and other thing you want, but we live in the BEST country in the world, and we do not need you, MohammadMaNutzSac, or any of you here. Stay in your third world country.
By the way, if you do not like us,. please get rid of all our ignorant inventions we made, like the computer your on, the internet, your internet connection , your cell phone, your home phone, your car, and Air conditioner. Us ignorant azzez made all the shiz, so don’t use it.
“When they carve her body?” What in the world are we talking about?
David, I would find you offensive except that you remind me a little bit too much of The Beverly Hillbillies, so really, you just make me laugh.
How many people here know that hudud, which is actually designed to be implemented on an extremely rare basis (read, basically never, if PROPERLY applied) is for both women AND men, on an equal basis? Contrary to the talking mouth pieces out there, it is not made to single women out. Actually, how many people here even understand what hudud is about? David? Anyone? David? Raise your hands. LOL.
Salam,
DAVID; I have one sentence for you which may help you in the ques of actually learning about technology and many other things which you, the “mighty western world invent” on basis of, and here it comes: ‘ARABIC NUMERALS.’
Besides, you might want to check into the fields of ALGEBRA, ASTRONOMY, CHEMISTRY…etc. you just might learn who “yer daddy is!”
Salam 🙂
Oh by the way…. David
You said: “GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY. We did not fight for YOUR freedom, we fought for ours.”
Are you taking credit from someone else? From someone else’s blood, sweat and tears? Because juding from your mentality, your English (IN)proficiency, and general ignorance, I HIGHLY DOUBT that you would be able to fight a loaf of bread.
Keep fighting Mr. armchair commando!!! 🙂
Until then, adhan will be sounding right here and Allah swt will be worshipped as it is done everywhere on this Earth.
Salam
So David, how many places have you been to outside of the US? Can you tell us where Canada is? Is it up or is it down? More importantly, are you able to pronounce that word? Do you know what a passport looks like? Are you having fun being an illiterate tough guy gaining inspiration from your dented trailer park slim jim mentality? Is O’Reilly your go to source for intelligent discourse about something he actually knows zippo about? Am I overwhelming you with questions? Hey David, how many languages do you speak? Do you hope to become fluent in English before you die?
And who the ‘sweet young girl who wants the mosque’ meant to be? Someone from a TV show?
PS SALAM
Abu, a sentence for yourself to consider ~INDIAN NUMERICS~ The so called Arabic numerical system was developed in India centuries before the advent of Islam. It was named Arabic at a time the west had no direct contact with India, & this form of mathematics was made known to us ~through~ Islam.
A few other items to consider.
Dome of the Rock; ~the~ standard for Mosques, built by Byzantium engineers as early Islam had no knowledge of engineering or architecture.
Agriculture, improved crop yields, animal husbandry, & irrigation, all developed by the honest developer societies of the axial age long before the advent of Islam
Philosophy, developed by Hindu sages, Confucians, Persians, Greeks, Romans & Egyptians up to two thousand years before the advent of Islam. Expropriated by Islam as the spoils of conquest as Islam had no coherent system of Philosophy.
Basic chemistry, metallurgy & astronomy arose from the honest endeavors & discoverers of the great axial age, centuries, sometimes thousands of years before the advent of Islam.
The Bible; developed by Jews & Christians over a period of thousands of years before Muhammad expropriated it to serve his own purposes & ends.
Sorry Abu, Islam has little if any ORIGINAL intellectual property right of its own.
………………………………….
There have only been two great material advances of man which changed the human condition, changed it for better or for worse, changed it FOREVER, & changed it by act of human self determination alone.
The great axial age, which pre-dates Islam, took us from late Stone Age to early developed civilization’s. The axial age had so many contributors in so many places (as far away as Inca America) it has to be held the accomplishment of humanity as a whole.
The recent great western material transmutation sponsored the second advance of man. It is noteworthy this second great leap forward took place only after Christianity had spent a thousand years contemplating the nature of sin & asked how development might be rightly guided in God.
In between these two great advances was the so called Golden age of Islam; an era where Islam gloated over the knowledge it had looted from others; used this knowledge to falsely glorify itself, & advanced humanity not one wit. The axial age has a huge body of ~original~ intellectual capital to its credit; as does the recent western material transmutation, Islam has virtually none.
The axial age & the recent western material transmutation are living testament… honest men prosper provided they are ~prudent~ in God. GOD IS JUST!
The limits of prudence is the question central to all human development.
Islam expropriating all the knowledge developed by the honest endeavors of others; then doing nothing but worship itself with it for the thousand years it had it. Living testament… thieves NEVER prosper. GOD IS JUST!
………………….
In recent times Asia has joined the west as a leading developer in the knowledge age. I am not surprised, Asian societies have a history dating all the way back to the axial age. Development is in the blood & culture of Asia; with its history of organized endeavor, discovery, innovation & development.
Compared to all the honest developers of history, what has Islam ever done for humanity?
Ken Maynard Webb… http://www.communichristi.org.nz
Normal Webb-site services will be restored in a few days.
Even though it was not my intention to acknowledge you Ken, since you have shown to us that you are not a man of your word, and suffer from some kind of self-appointed divine status (kind of crazy), I will only comment on your cooment briefly.
As far as “Arabic Numerals” or “Hindu-Arabic” numerals as they are commonly known, it shows me one thing; IT DOES NOT SAY ENGLISH, AMERICAN…or any other numeral-system. The “mighty” western world may now fall on their knees and thank the middle eastern and far eastern world, for their successes. Thank the Arab Muslims especially for bringing the light to Europe in its darkest times. Thank the Turks who brought the HYGIENE to the European (at that time stinky) Christians, by opening the PUBLIC BATHS…etc. It is no wonder that the French have the best parfumes in the world, someone had to cover all the stink up 🙂
History shows us that wherever Muslims came, either as conquerors or non-conquerors, they have brought positive things and have built things up. Very few non-Muslim empires have done the same. In the last 200 years, non Muslims have brought naught but death and destruction to ALL others who do not share the same values or views.
Lastly, here is what you wrote: “The Bible; developed by Jews & Christians over a period of thousands of years before Muhammad expropriated it to serve his own purposes & ends.”
The only truth to that may be the first part of that statement, that indeed it HAS been developed (to at least great extent) by the hands of men. YOU NEED TO PROVE ME THE OTHER HALF OF YOUR CLAIM. – Please show us the proof that Muhammad (saws) has indeed used it to his advantage, and please bring forth SOLID arguments and evidences.
Also, I would like to remind you, that I could claim the same, considering that there are other sacred scriptures in existence which predate the Bible.
I am looking forward to this, Ken!
Ken, as an aside, have a look at this link regarding the contribution of Muslims to the mathematical world, and no it is not from an Islamic site. Have a look, in particular, at the vast number of biographical write ups. Ten minutes here will show anyone how utterly foolish your claims that Muslims spend all of their time resting on the laurels of others are. http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Indexes/Arabs.html. If it’s an awkward cut and paste, sorry, my browser doesn’t seem to want to copy link locations, but it should work.
Oh, the link did work. Isn’t that nice
It seems to me also, that many confuse the terms such as “Muslim” inventions versus the “western world” or “Non-Muslim” inventions…etc. One targeting a “faith or belief” system versus non-fatith based system.
Tell me what are the “Christian” inventions? – and I mean the true, Bible based scientific inventions?
Salam to you brother Abu
Have you not ever noticed, that when confronted with the achievements of Muslims throughout history, certain people always say “But that has NOTHING to do with Islam”
However, when they talk about any of the bad thing Muslims have done, suddenly it is ALL about the religion. There must be a term for that, I don’t know. Maybe we could call it selective application of criterion.
Christian inventions? I don’t know, maybe Sunday school picnics 🙂
Salam
Gregor Johann Mendel (July 20, 1822[1] – January 6, 1884) was an Austrian Augustinian monk and scientist, who gained posthumous fame as the figurehead of the new science of genetics for his study of the inheritance of certain traits in pea plants. Mendel showed that the inheritance of these traits follows particular laws, which were later named after him. The significance of Mendel’s work was not recognized until the turn of the 20th century. The independent rediscovery of these laws formed the foundation of the modern science of genetics.[2]
Nicolaus Copernicus (German: Nikolaus Kopernikus; Italian: Nicolò Copernico; Polish: Miko?aj Kopernik; in his youth, Niclas Koppernigk;[1]; 19 February 1473 – 24 May 1543) was a Renaissance astronomer and the first person to formulate a comprehensive heliocentric cosmology, which displaced the Earth from the center of the universe.[2]
Copernicus’ epochal book, De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), published just before his death in 1543, is often regarded as the starting point of modern astronomy and the defining epiphany that began the scientific revolution. His heliocentric model, with the Sun at the center of the universe, demonstrated that the observed motions of celestial objects can be explained without putting Earth at rest in the center of the universe. His work stimulated further scientific investigations, becoming a landmark in the history of science that is often referred to as the Copernican Revolution.
Among the great polymaths of the Renaissance, Copernicus was a mathematician, astronomer, physician, quadrilingual polyglot, classical scholar, translator, artist,[3] Catholic cleric, jurist, governor, military leader, diplomat and economist. Among his many responsibilities, astronomy figured as little more than an avocation—yet it was in that field that he made his mark upon the world.
The list of actual Catholic monks who’s research created the modern world is too long to list here. These people where not just Catholic clergy but their work was funded by the Church. Meanwhile, lets look at the Islamic world where crushers are used to destroy any artifacts that predate the Islamic invasion of various nations even including Saudi Arabia as the contempt Islam has for actual inquiry is so great, that all events taking place before the time of the founder of Islam, Mohamed, is called “The time of ignorance”. No greater hubris is imaginable in my humble opinion.
Eeyore, you cut and pasted that straight out of two separate entries in Wikepedia, I know, because I just ran it through Plagium. Did you not know that you have to acknowledge your source, or it becomes plagiarism? And your last statement is so foolish, I don’t even know where to begin. Islam actually puts an enormous emphasis on seeking knowledge, and on education. Qur’an in fact instructs us not to follow anyone blindly just because we have no knowledge on a subject that they claim to have but to also do our own research and study. We are told that if we blame others for misleading us, we will be asked why we didn’t use our own faculties and reasoning abilities in the matter. To say that contempt for actual inquiry is so great… has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those one will be questioned (by Allâh) 17.36
or from my English Translation of meaning of Al Qur’an, a guidance for Mankind,
“You shall not follow anyone blindly in those matters of which you have no knowledge, surely, the use of your eyes and the ears and your heart – all of these, shall be questioned on the day of Judgement. 17.36
Come on, now. I understand that you hate Islam, but stop lying.
None of which, by the way, is meant to minimize the works of people such as Mendel or Copernicus, who did indeed make very significant and far reaching contributions to our world. Salam
Yes the bio’s on the monks were indeed from Wiki. I thought it so obvious there was no point in mentioning it. However it makes no difference to the point unless your mission is just to embarass or find fault with me, as opposed to the question asked. As to Islam and history, are you denying that Islam claims all things before Mohaed are considered the time of ignorance? Are you denying that in Many Muslim countries because specifically of the influence of Islam that arhecologists are forbidden from digging up ancient cities? Saudi Arabia being the best example but Gaza and the West bnak runs shredders destroying all evidence of ancient Jewish residency there as quick as they can. Hardly the work of a people in search of knowledge.
I think you know you have no leg to stand on here. Islam has contributed pretty much nothing to the cannon of human works. Certainly not art. No great plays, literature, music and certainly no science or real achievement with the arguable exception of certain Persia scientists. This would be because Persia was, until recently, the only Islamic nation that actually valued it’s pre-Islamic past, and so was able to continue to create new ideas and things until its recent hijra to greater devotion to Islam, and of course, its move backwards in all things other than weapons technology and even that is all plagiarized.
There is nothing actually new even in Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Just stolen and copied bits of technology from North Korea, itself stolen from old US research.
For anyone interested in a quantified and verifiable account of who has contributed what to the great works of our species, I recommend the excellent book, Human Accomplishment by Charles Murray. It is a very serious work on the question of what group of people did what and potentially why. Really fascinating stuff. The Arab people certainly did manage to contribute but not once infected by Islam as I recall the book.
I assume you have completely ignored the link I provided above, which holds about 45 separate biographies of Muslims devoted to research in Mathematics and astronomy, and no, they where not all from Persia.
Here would be an example of Muslim’s contribution to poetry, contrary to your claim of Muslims being dead beats to the artistic world.
An Ocean without Shore
I marveled at an Ocean without shore,
and at a Shore that did not have an ocean;
And at a Morning Light without darkness,
and at a Night that was without daybreak;
And then a Sphere with no locality
known to either fool or learned scholar;
And at an azure Dome raised over the earth,
circulating ’round its center — Compulsion;
And at a rich Earth without o’er-arching vault
and no specific location, the Secret concealed . . . .
I courted a Secret which existence did not alter;
for it was asked of me: “Has Thought enchanted you?”
— To which I replied: “I have no power over that;
I counsel you: Be patient with it while you live.
But, truly, if Thought becomes established
in my mind, the embers kindle into flame,
And everything is given up to fire
the like of which was never seen before!”
And it was said to me: “He does not pluck a flower
who calls himself with courtesy ‘Freeborn’.”
“He who woos the belle femme in her boudoir, love-beguiled,
will never deem the bridal-price too high!”
I gave her the dower and was given her in marriage
throughout the night until the break of Dawn —
But other than Myself I did not find. — Rather,
that One whom I married — may his affair be known:
For added to the Sun’s measure of light
are the radiant New Moon and shining Stars;
Like Time, dispraised – though the Prophet (Blessings on him!)
had once declared of your Lord that He is Time.
(Muhyiddin Ibn ‘Arabi)
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Science and Faith
Once Science said to Faith:
“My eye can see all that is in this world;
The Entire world is within my net.
I am only concerned with material things,
What have I to do with spiritual matters?
I can strike a thousand melodies,
And openly proclaim all the secrets that I learn.”
Faith said:
“With your magic even the waves in the sea are set ablaze,
You can pollute the atmosphere with foul, poisonous gases.
When you associated with me, you were light,
When you broke off from me, your light became fire.
You were of Divine origin,
But you have been caught in the clutches of Shaytan.
Come, make this wasteland a garden once again.
Borrow from me a little of my ecstasy,
And in the world set up a paradise.
From the day of creation we have been associates,
We are the low and high tunes of the same melody.”
(Allahma Iqbal)
…………………………………………………………………………………………………….
The Rose
What Allah said to the Rose
And caused it to laugh in full blown beauty,
He said to my heart
And made it a hundred times more beautiful.
(Jalaluddin Rumi)
Of course, I am thoroughly expecting a nasty response from you, Eeyore, but whatever. Personally I think this poetry is quite beautiful, and the poets are also quite famous, even if you don’t wish to acknowledge them.
Salam
Oh, and Eeyore, FYI, here are some links leading to articles about Saudi Arabian archaeologists doing digs of pre- Islamic sites in Saudi Arabia
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/11/saudi-arabia-history-archeology-islam.html
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article182756.ece
here is one about a dig in Qatar: http://www.jstor.org/pss/4200468
here is one about the Lost City of Ubar in Oman: http://kochin.blogspot.com/2007/06/ubar-story-of-lost-city.htmle
I wanted to go see that when I was in Oman a few years back since I am really fascinated by that kind of stuff, but I didn’t get that chance. Too bad.
And Eeyore, there are many more. And if you start whining “But the ones in Saudi Arabia aren’t CITIES!! I was talking about CITIES, I am just going to start laughing.
Salam
Still waiting to see if there is anything from the Bible (the Christian science)…??? Anyone? There must be something… 🙂
But Abu, didn’t you see Eeyore’s post? How could you have missed that? I’m surprised at you.
Just for entertainment’s sake, I read through some of the other comments threads on your site, Eeyore, and I can honestly say that I have never come across so many numbskulls in my life, from someone’s completely ludicrious pontifications regarding Sharia Law, which only proved that he didn’t understand a damned thing about Sharia, …… “and if sharia law states that kufars (non-believers) can be stolen from, cheated and lied to, then this must and shall be done by Muslims…..” !!!!!!! GASP !!!! to various asssertions about how any woman who goes to or lives in an Islamic Country is constantly fearing for her life. This would be interesting news for my friends and acquaintances from Egypt, Morrocco, Malaysia, Kenya, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan…..all who are happy with their religion, well educated, believe in their rights, and speak fondly of their home..It’s also interesting news for me, having been in Islamic societies even before I reverted, where I was treated extremely well, and with great respect, by the men. In fact, Eeyore, I was so impressed with their attitude and demeanor towards me that it made Islam win major points with me.
But you just keep on going with your biased, sensationalizing website. You keep on creating your lies. And in the meantime, you just ignore the hundreds, if not thousands of horrible things people are doing to each other each and every day in the non muslim world, as well. You just keep on making it looks like it’s only Muslims that do bad things and like bad things is all that Muslims do. The only people you fool are the ones that probably deserve to be fooled.
Oh by the way, I looked up Charles Murray, he sounds as biased to me as all get out.
The reason that individuals from, say, “the Golden age of Islam” don’t show up, seems to me, is because he just flat out ignores them……
And I am still waiting for someone to explain the concept of Hudud. Don’t be shy. After all, there are so many experts here. Come on now. I feel neglected and I’m sure that brother Abu does too. Someone, please, help us. 🙁
Salam sister…
Yes I saw his post 🙂
It absloutely does not put anything to the table in my opinion, especially related to what I wrote and or challenged in my past posts, so, my time is valuable, and unless he gets serious about the religius/theological issues, I won’t waste too much of it here and give him some attention.
Realise one thing sister, most of them are attention seekers. They have no power to change anything in their lives, so, they create blogs and hate sites to vent. That’s ok. In law enforcement they taught us as long as they are venting that is good! 🙂
There are several idiots (i.e. Emir and Ergun Caner), who have received wide publicity in their attacks against Islam, by claiming many things, including that they were ‘former Muslims’ and one even claimed that he was ‘former terrorist’ and that he got saved by accepting Christ…etc.
Needless to say, as is the case in all of such cases they lied their asses off, and got exposed by brother on his website: http://www.fakeexmuslim.com
Some people never learn.
Speaking of, we just had a domestic violence class held in the in-service week, and they showed us the statistics in their presentation that on average 1500 women and about 2000 children are killed each year in the US, in such cases. Not to count the injured/abused ones, and the ones which never go reported. Just little info to keep in back of your mind.
I will be back again here sometime soon inshallah and see what’s up!
Salam to you and don’t waste too much time on people who are not serious about peace and co-existence, and we can see very well who tose are, righ on this blog.
Sorry sister, I misspelled the website. It is: http://www.fakeexmuslims.com
Salam to you brother Abu
Indeed, domestic violence. MANY of my nonmuslim friends have violent and otherwise not nice husbands in their histories.
Yeah, I saw this guy on u tube once who claimed the ex muslim thing, being interviewed, and he said something like “I was a completely devout Muslim, had been my whole life, and I was twenty three years old, I had just finished reading the Qur’an completely for the first time…..and then went on with his story about how he ended up in a church and found Christ, (peace be upon him)……
and I was like, Uhmm, are you kidding me?
So
You’ve been ‘devout’ your whole life
Which means that you’ve observed at least 7 Ramadans, give or take
Not to mention that if you are ‘devout’ you are supposed to be reading/studying Qur’an everyday, anyhow
But you just NOW finished reading Qur’an
At the age of 23.
Also, I listened to a debate once where someone was claiming to be an exmuslim and an ex terrorist, maybe it’s the person you alluded to in your post. Funny thing was that he presented the same litany of lies that they all do on their hate sites, and got pretty much everything wrong. Also, he claimed to have offed like dozens of people, but here he is, free as a kite, running around and having debates.
For real
So transparent it’s funny
🙂 🙂 🙂
Salam
I just watched the CNN program The Muslim Next Door and initially was surprised that town would rise up over the construction of a mosque in the town of Murfreesboro, TN. Yet freedom of speech and freedom of religion practised here in the USA may be questioned at the size and magnitude of this Islamic Center. I believe the inhabitants do have a right to maintain a lifestyle they have held for many generations past.
Muslims do impose themselves on a society with their head scarves and cloaks and Islam, what ever Anne professes is seemingly a religion of violence and confrontation. Many of its Shariah practices dating from the 7th century are still in operation to day. I think that people who are so devout will want to live in a society where their religion is in the majority.
I believe Anne should take a visit to Bangladesh and strive to support the oppressed women and female children. First stop to visit the village where Hen Khan was tortured with 100 lashes, a 14 year old girl, because the elders of the village deemed she had broken the Islamic Shariah law. Unfortunately she didn’t survive to protest her innocence, she died a week later. Meanwhile, her parents had to be in attendance to watch the slaughter. Anne could do a lot of good in Bangladesh, because even the government, who have banned the Islamic law, are incapable of stopping this barbaric 7th century practice.
Who knows, what may happen inside the walls of the Murfreesboro Islamic Center!
Salaam
Again, let me re-issue my challenge; let’s put the Bible vs. Qur’an side by side and compare which one is more violent book.
Also, when one looks into the case mentioned by ‘Gery’ one can clearly see that almost zero investiagtion had taken place. If you don’t have decent investigation into the matter how can you bring forth proper ruling or verdict. Another interesting point is, that most such incidences take place in very poor (economically and otherwise) societies. So, in my opinion what happened in the case is absolutely unjustified.
Then I look around me, and see all the injustice, rapes, domestic abuse cases…etc. and even if I wanted to not see them I can’t because in my line of work I have to respond to each and every call. What would happen if true Islamic shariah came here to this society… wow, no more 11 and 12 year old getting pregnant, no more ‘children’ in mini outfits, no more baby’s momma (a whore) getting pregnant every year by who knows whom just to collect social help, and million other things, I would need a blog just to list them all what goes on.
Maybe, I will still vote for shariah vs. current status. 🙂
P.S. Look into the Bible, and see the verdict of what happenes to girls who are found to not be virgins…etc.
In a Western society it is in the main the under-privileged, uneducated, economically depressed kids and families that suffer from these abuses. However in Moslem societies it is the LEADERS of the faith or the political leaders who commit these crimes. In the USA if a customer to a brothel or a man has sex with a 12 year old (whore or not) it is the institution and the man that will face charges.
I wasn’t sure what case has not been investigated but if Abu would like to check out the Bangladesh story with CNN he will gather chapter and verse of this barbaric act. I was pleasantly surprised to see Abu an educated moslem condemning this atrocity (absolutely unjustified), however in his next breath he is advocating this same punishment as a method of ridding the world of mini-skirts and flirtatious teenagers. He still doesn’t get it that it is the adult males are the criminals. And they seem to get away with these sex crimes, because women supposed to wrap themselves in Chadurs
I also want to enlighten Abu that nowhere did I compare Bible to Koran. However, the 7th century practices of the Koran are still practiced TODAY! I am sure the bible advocated many crude punishments, but tell me Abu, which Western society uses the bible as their modern day laws?
Well, since it is a late Sunday afternoon with nothing much going on, I though I would write something
If anyone is worried about what goes on at the local masjid, they are always welcome to come in to visit and see. There is an open door policy. As long as they are polite, leave their shoes at the door, dress decently and cover their head if they are women they can step in. They can even stay for Khutbah, to hear what the Sheik/imam talks about. They shouldn’t worry about bringing the kids, who are welcome and spend their time running around and playing. They would probably be quite surprised. Here are some subjects that mine have discussed:
The concept of verbal repentance vs repentance in action, and how sincere repentance requires making an actual change, not just giving lip service
Being calm and objective and not showing favoritism
The dangers of gossip, and how gossip ruins people’s lives
Treating all people with mercy and fairness, regardless of religion
Remembering God, (Allah) in your thoughts throughout the day, also known as “Dhikr”
This was one of my favorite ones – how every good behavior is always in between two bad ones, ie, if you drive it too far in either direction it will lose it’s good qualities. This is another way of saying do not be lax, but do not go to extremes, either.
And so on. Imagine that. Not one time has there been talk of violence or going after the infidels.
I read that this center is supposed to be around 50,000 square feet, have a school, gym, reception, etc, and this is really freaking people out.
So I looked up a well known cathedral where I live, and found out that it comes in at over 60,000 square feet, but no one seems bothered by that.
I looked up a Jewish community center, which has, guess what, a school, recreational programs, a swimming pool, a reception area… Now, I know people who use that center, send their kids there, and they love it. And why shouldn’t they? If anyone tried to close it down with “they are pushing there way onto us” I would be the first one to defend their right to stay. But why are these facilities ok but the ones in Mursfreesboro are not?
The accusation that Muslims are ‘pushing their ways onto others’ is absurd.
Unless I am walking up to you and slapping a hijab on your head and saying ‘wear this’ I am not pushing my way onto you. Unless I walk over to your shopping cart and remove all of the items that are not halal, I am not pushing my way onto you. Unless I unfurl my prayer mat right in front of you, and tell you to stand back, I am not pushing my way onto you.
When I sit next to a woman on the bus who is wearing a top with half of her self spilling out, or when I get to walk by a bar with lots of drunks stumbling around, do I get to accuse them of ‘pushing their way onto me?’
When you come at me wrapped in your American flag and your rhetoric and your uneducated assumptions and demands it is not me pushing my way onto you, but you pushing your way onto me.
We cannot just force anyone to accept and live by Shariah law, or establish an Islamic State on top of this one, just because we feel like it, it doesn’t work like that.
Shariah is for Muslims
Not for nonmuslims
No one can be forced to become Muslim. Any reversion that is coerced, done without understanding or not sincere is not considered to be a true reversion.
That is what Shariah teaches us
In spite of what certain people insist.
For the record, as far as I am concerned what happened to the poor girl in Bangladesh is a complete travesty. The operative word in “true Sharia law” Is TRUE.
Shariah law does not punish women for being raped, in spite of what people claim. Islam sees rape as being one of the worst crimes, and women are seen as being victims.
There is absolutely nothing, anywhere, about needing 4 witnesses to prove a rape, these witnesses apply to accusations of adultery.
There needs to be a detailed and painstaking investigation, with all of the circumstances considered.
If there is a conviction, and punishment such as this one, it is certainly not supposed to maim or kill anyone. I don’t remember where I read them, but there are rules to carrying the punishment out, and it was described as a humiliation, more than anything else.
People are not allowed to take the law into their own hands
I do not see this case as being Shariah, I see it as a case of some people acting like ignorant dip shits.
So, bad example.
But really, I see no need for me to go there. I mean, there are so many psychos taking matters into their own hands and doing crappy things to women right here
Now, would I vote for TRUE Shariah? Gosh. Yes. I would. Because for one it would make my neighborhood so much more pleasant, especially late at night.
Salam
Actually, Gerry, that’s not true. Abuse cuts across all social, ethnic, and economical lines.
And I am trying to find where Abu specifically said that he advocated flogging to end these problems that he mentioned. Where did he say that? Did he say that whipping someone is a Shariah response to someone who is a victim of domestic violence, or rape?
You people really need to quit making stuff up.
Well Gerry, your statement once again proves a point I brought forth long time ago on another blog, where I stated that if western world who so likes to claim to be a “christian” one does not adhere to their own biblical teachings, has then no right to call itself a “christan’ one.
Yes, we a s Muslims DO BELIEVE and do act upon our beliefs. We are no hypocrites (‘christian’ west).
Let me also clarify to you one thing, we Muslims, living wherever we do, and especially here in the west, do not owe you anything, nor are we here to please any one of you. It is quite the same to me (an I am pretty sure to most of us) when you and the ones like you come up with what you all come up with. We can only laugh, and educate the ones who like to know more.
Your own statement in “judging” shariah, which I know that you have absolute zero knowledge, came from where? – oh yes, CNN. I was surprised that it was not a FOX. However it is, with that statement you have shown me and all others who come and read this blog, how sincere you are in true studies and research about Islam, and it makes me doubt that you are sincere in anything in your life. 🙂
There are many things I was going to touch upon, but sister Anne has already mentioned some, so there is no need for me to get over them.
And why is it that when people do accept Islam in the west, it is most of the time majority women???
Here is an article about the UK, and the people there becoming Muslims, again 2/3 of the “converts’ are women 🙂
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343954/100-000-Islam-converts-living-UK-White-women-keen-embrace-Muslim-faith.html
Speaking of barbaric punishments, I wonder how many of you realize that in the United States, corporal punishment {Ie, paddling) in schools is still legal in 20 different States, with some of the victims being PRESCHOOLERS. Every year, thousand of kids end up in the emergency room because of this BARBARIC and OUTDATED treatment, which is COMPLETELY legal. Did you know that? No, probably not.
Where is people’s outrage about that?
I once read an account by a mom from Texas who saw her seven year old son’s back when he was undressing to shower, and it was covered with bloody welts, top to bottom
and she asked him, what the hell happened
and it turned out that the Principal of the School had beaten him
Because the kid said he didn’t have gum, even though he did.
I think it was thirty five times
The kid was seven.
And this was legal.
Well?
So tell me, where is all of the outrage about that?
Anyone?
Hypocrites
http://stopschoolpaddling.blogspot.com/p/223190-kids-legally-beaten-in-us.html
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/04/14/corporal-punishment-schools-and-its-effect-academic-success-joint-hrwaclu-statement
Beware! The Koran teaches treat women as sex slaves and puts women on a low level as human beings. The Muslim teachings are not meant to be proclai
med in America. Christians, read the Koran, just a few teachings will make you aware that a Mosque cannot be built in Murfreesboro. If it happens, Satan will grow in strength and weaken the Spiritual influence in Murfreesboro.
I have Muslim friends who are very moderate, non-violent and appalled by events such as 9/11. But I have also seen in them fear that their parents or clerics would disapprove of their more contemporary attitudes and manner of dress. The way so many American Muslims look the other way out of fear doesn’t make the rest of us very trusting of the community at large. If you disagree with the violence, extremism and the hijacking of your religion then get off of your butt and do something about it. Playing dumb only hurts you and your community.
I did a little looking around on the ‘net for more info. Some here have responded to these criticisms of Islam as being undocumented or opinion being presented as fact. This article is loaded with links to sources, quotes from the Koran and Hadith as well as modern day rulings from courts in Shariah practicing countries.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/08/top_ten_reasons_why_sharia_is.html
I don’t blame you for disagreeing with the tobacco-chewin’, John Deere hat-wearin’ rednecks that want all the “Ay-rabs” thrown out of the Good “Ol USA. But I do tend to take the concerns of Former Muslims United a bit more seriously. They were among the first groups to raise alarm about the Murfreesboro mosque.
http://formermuslimsunited.org/
And please, if you wish to dispute the claims against Shariah don’t do it with comparisons to violent quotes in the Bible that just about every Christian has heard and puts no stock in. My religion does not teach me to take every word of the bible seriously. Just state your case from your point of view instead of saying, in effect, “Well, you’re just as bad as we are”. You remind me of those clowns in Congress.
P.S. Anne M – what kind of car do you have and how much do you want for it. Should you get your chance to vote for Shariah in America and it passes you won’t be driving anymore and I might want to buy it. Or do you practice what you preach and don’t drive a car.
John
I’d just like to ask a couple of questions of both Anne M and Abu Ahmed, and I’m not taking sides:
Would you resist the institution of Sharia law in the US?
Do you think that anyone should be allowed to practice Sharia law in the US?
That’s all I want to know. Thank you.
Like it or not, Western world did have a much earlier influences from Christianity as well as many other foreign influences. Therefore if western people who may have had accepted a more secular Christianity without following biblical teaching, but follow their own moral western mores, that is up to the West and not up to the Islamist to tell the West what to believe and what not to believe. Anyway, why should people accept Islam when it is no better and oftentimes worse than any other religions or non-religious society of the world.
Alhamdulilahi Rabb ‘il Alameen!
I praise and thank Allah, The Lord and Creator of Heavens and Earth and all that exists for giving me this opportunity to address you in the issue(s) at hand.
It has been since April that I have been taken up with some of more important issues, so I had to sacrifice time on this blog.
Anyway, I am here now.
Well, the first person I would like to address is “hoarmouth” since (s)he has been most respectful in his/her post.
To answer your question simply my answers would be “NO” and “YES to your questions respectively.”
That is to save you and others here much time.
However, I would like to add to my answers that Shariah being implemented in the US government any time soon (I mean next 100 years) is as good as impossible. There are several reasons for that, and one of the major ones is that there are no competent scholars on that issue among non-Muslims in America, and very few on the Muslim side in the US as well.
Shariah is very broad subject, and cannot be discussed in any blog to much extent without spending great amounts of time and effort. Furthermore, I am not a scholar of Shariah law, even though I have enough knowledge to get me by my daily life; which brings me to another point, and that is, Shariah law is already in US, and is practiced by most devout Muslims in their daily family life. The Qur’an and example of prophet Muhammad’s daily life (Sunnah) being the basis of Shariah, and most of Muslims are more or less familiar with them is all it takes for us to practice our Faith.
And truthfully, that is all that matters to most of us.
Much could be said on this but for the sake of time and addressing other two posters (less intelligent ones) I will have to stop here.
Thank you again for you being respectful in your inquiry.
KEN BUNTIN
I would suggest you try to present little more evidence than that. Anyone in the world can make any claim(s) about any thing, yet not everyone can support them. Also, it shows your (low) level of intelligence and ability to be engaged in any more serious conversation on the topic of Islam in general.
There is one puzzling statement though, you mentioned the weakening of Spiritual influence in M-boro if the mosque is build and ‘Satan’ grows in influence??? That is really interesting, for I thought that the Spirit in Christian belief is part of the triune godhead, making it just another part of God in Christian concept, yet the Spirit can be weakened and influenced by ‘Satan?’
Please do tell, how Satanic the Qur’an really is. I will be eagerly waiting for that one.
I do agree with only one of your statements; please do read the Qur’an in its entirety.
WILL
I would like you ask you to elaborate little more on your statement on “Secular Christianity” and what that is, as well as where does “Western World” draw their ‘morals from.’ I am very much interested to know how can one be a “Christian” or follow “Christianity” without following biblical teachings, or at least some of it? That is a new one.
Judging on that statement of your alone, I will not pay much attention to your last sentence claiming that Islam is not better than any other religion and often time is worse. Evidently you have no basic knowledge about the claimed religion of the US to even discuss Islam or its issues.
Just one more suggestion; would you be willing to tell your government, to leave the rest of non-Western world alone and in peace, and not tell them what, when, where, and how to live their lives, and how to deal with their affairs, if you are not willing someone else telling you how to live? It really is simple logic.
Anyway, peace and may you all be guided to the right path and may Allah swt open your hearts and minds, and take the hatred out of you! Amin!
Salam!
I would like to respectfully address the questions posted by Hoarmouth. I hope that I can do them at least some justice, because I have limited time and I am also a bit tired, but I will respond as best I am able, insha’allah.
First off, I want to extend my appreciation for your asking your questions in such an objective, and unbiased fashion, this is indeed a pleasant surprise in a blog such as this one.
I have the same short answers as my very respected Brother Abu does.
No, I would not resist Shariah law. What I would resist, however, is the corruption that often passes as Shariah law – practices that are power based, filled with unfair trials, cultural practices that masquerade as Islam, and the like. When I think of true Shariah, the first thing is that it respects the rights of nonmuslims, and contrary to what some claim, it’s body of laws, in large part, are for those who practice Islam, not for those who don’t. I say in part because I think it should go without saying that such crimes as theft, and the like would obviously still be illegal for anyone. However, even here, the same punishments would not apply. I also say in part, because this does not mean that you, a nonmuslim, would not be granted rights and protection by the Shariah state. There is much more I could say about peoples misunderstandings and misplaced fears of living under Shariah. However, the long and short of the whole Shariah Law coming to the US as established National law thing though, is that it is so extremely improbable that it is really only an academic discussion at best, in reality, it is really a mute point. It is certainly is not something that keeps me up at night.
Which brings me to the second question, and again, like my respected brother Abu, the answer is yes. I believe that anyone should be allowed to practice Shariah, to the extent that it does no harm to or supresses anyone else. And ofcourse, if I am practicing Shariah the way that it should be practiced, that wouldn’t even happen. And here is the thing, and brother Abu has already gone over this….if you see a practicing Muslim, then you are looking at Shariah, right now. You see, actually, Shariah seen in that way is already here, and has been, for a long long time. What has changed is the body of political and social fear mongering in regards to Shariah. Shariah covers a huge range, actually almost every avenue of life, from dress to inheritance laws to treatment of workers to dietary laws to how we greet each other to daily prayers to family relations to charity ……well, the list goes on and on and on. So to me I follow Shariah because I wear hijab, I stay away from alcohol, I am kind to my neighbors, say my salats, avoid transactions that involve interest, I keep good relations with my parents (who are, by the way, not Muslim and not even particularly religious)….. again, the list goes on …..these are just some examples of practicing shariah, on the personal level.
There is a movement, as you probably know, a political movement that has taken place in various States to make the practice of Shariah law illegal.
This is on the one hand silly, and points to an astonishing ignorance of what Shariah law is by those who wish to implement these laws.
But on the other hand, it is disturbing, because there is a difference between not implementing something as a national law, and not allowing it’s practice on an individual level. And if it is “Illegal” then what does that mean? Am I committing a felony now if I cover my hair? If I say that I want to arrange inheritance according to Shariah principals, does that now make me a criminal? If I look for a place when I am away from home to say one of my salats, am I rewarded with a trip to the county jail?
As you can see, this would make practicing my religion completely impossible.
The vast majority, and I do mean vast, contrary to what various individuals spout out about Muslims being instructed to take over the world and the like, which is completely false, do not have the slightest interest in dictating to anyone or telling anyone how to live. I certainly don’t. I have friends of all beliefs, over 99 percent of my neighbors are nonmuslim, this is not an issue. The only issue is that I think I should have the same body of rights regarding religious freedeom, freedom of dress, and freedom of belief that are granted to others.
I do hope that I have at least in some ways addressed your questions and again, I thank you for and appreciate your respect.
salam
Anne M
I have experience living in a horrible islamic infested environment and I am more
than qualified to criticise islamic culture and islamic people.
Why is islamic people always try to make nonbelievers feel uncomfortable with their deception and hypocrisy. I as a nonbeliever already know what living under inconvenient, horrible and backward islam rule is all about and therefore I don’t need to be told off again and again by irrationally arrogant islamic people or rude and deceptive islamic people. It is unacceptable when islamic people affect our nonbelievers life in such a negative way. I think islamic people have no right to deceive or intimidate or humilliate us nonbelievers or interfere in or migrate to Western countries or cause problems to Western civilisation. As far as I know, islam is unworthy of any respect and unworthy to waste time on arguing about it with any socalled knowlegeable islamic people. And one more thing, us nonbelievers should not be made to be afraid of some nasty stuff such as islam and islamic people have no right to preach their irrational nonsense to us nonbelievers.
If you all islamic want to practice your deception or your sharia, by all means do so in your own hell holes and leave us nonbelievers alone to live independently and in peace.
Will, I recommend sitting down and drinking a nice cool glass of water. You appear to be agitated and over heated. Have a nice day.
WLIL if they could leave us in peace, it wouldn’t be Islam, and we wouldn’t have a problem with it would we? The problem is at the core of Islam as a culture and a behavioural system. They have to take more and more territory for their founder’s fantasy-god. They have to impose their barbaric and primitive legal ‘system’ on us as it is the only way Muslims have of feeling superior to the rest of the world, the vast majority of it which have conquered the sky, under the oceans, the atom, outer space while Muslims go around trashing falafel stands in Iraq or blowing up liquor stores.
Their religion has held an otherwise fine people backwards by centuries. All they have is violence and moral certainty.
And of course there is no need to follow any religion or ideology to be a highly moral person.
Islamic people should not make use of their religion or their ideology to deceive or intimidate us nonbelievers..