This one starts out a little slow. But tough it out for a few minutes. Wait till you hear the segment from the radio call in show. Clearly Islam in Australia is also the extreme, rare, exceptional form of Islam like it is everywhere else in the world.
If they do come back and rape her not only the Moslems will be guilty but
also the politicians who voted in gun control and deprived her of the
tool that would make her equal to the Moslems in the ability to project
force. One old Colt Single Action Army 45 revolver from the old west had the following engraved on its cylinder,
Be not afraid of any man
No matter what his size
If ever in fear, just call on me
And I will equalize
Robert Heinlein said that the armed man is a free man, H. Beam Piper said that a disarmed citizenry are simply slaves waiting for the chains to be slapped on.
Personally I think a shotgun would be what she wants.
What you are doing is called a disingenious and a deplorable work. Sheikh Taj didnt say that women deserved to rape if they werent dressed modestly. If he said that than you need to provide the exact quote where he said that rather than relying on your mind reading abilities.
Islamically speaking, women are encouraged to dress modestly and so are men. For instance pants are considered immodest for men And women .That is the concept of modesty quite alien to western world. Is it however enough, to equate the other as barbaric and evil? Cant you appreciate the difference without throwing the other in gutter? Shame on you.
The clip that you posted is also a classic example of editing and creating meaning rather than conveying meaning. The verses that you took out of Quran are also in a certain reference.Every verse has a context. The verses that you took out also has a background. But for you to actually derive meanings from it in a cursory glance is nothing short of stupidity. Consult the experts on islam rather than picking youtube videos to understand islam.
Sheik Feiz Mohammed is scum. He was kicked out of England, but not before he rose to fame in the British production “Undercover mosque’
Unbelievably he is teaching in Sydney
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2515587181120245843#
Syeda says,
>What you are doing is called a disingenious and a deplorable work. Sheikh >Taj didnt say that women deserved to rape if they werent dressed >modestly. If he said that than you need to provide the exact quote where >he said that rather than relying on your mind reading abilities.
Don’t you read the news?
There’s any number of instances of brutality against women with Islam.
>Islamically speaking, women are encouraged to dress modestly and so are >men. For instance pants are considered immodest for men And >women .That is the concept of modesty quite alien to western world. Is it >however enough, to equate the other as barbaric and evil? Cant you >appreciate the difference without throwing the other in gutter? Shame on >you.
Islamically speaking???
WTF?
OK, It’s the exploding, whining, ass-lifting illogic of your whole “faith” that gets you thrown in the gutter.
f
The clip that you posted is also a classic example of editing and creating meaning rather than conveying meaning. The verses that you took out of Quran are also in a certain reference.Every verse has a context. The verses that you took out also has a background. But for you to actually derive meanings from it in a cursory glance is nothing short of stupidity. Consult the experts on islam rather than picking youtube videos to understand islam.
Syeda… if you have a problem with editing, take it up the person who edited it.
You know the saying”Don’t shoot the messenger?” ……..oh but Islam doesn’t care about that. Kill all the kaffirs….right ?
http://www.theage.com.au/news/editorial/sheikh-hilali-is-not-fit-to-be-the-mufti-of-australia/2006/10/28/1161749356027.html
**SHEIKH TAJ AL-DIN AL-HILALI should resign or be stood down from his position as mufti of Australia. This is a tolerant country, in which the idea that a range of viewpoints can be expressed and heard is central to our society. But Hilali’s comments that women invite rape or sexual attacks by the way they dress — revealed this week to widespread condemnation — are offensive, out of touch and entirely unacceptable for a community leader.
As has now been widely reported, Hilali said during a Ramadan service last month: “If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats’ or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.”**
In October 2006, Hilaly delivered a Ramadan sermon in Arabic in which he made statements concerning female clothing which proved highly controversial. The key part of these was:
If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats’ or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem. If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.”
—Taj El-Din Hilaly[25][26]
He also said, “in the state of zina, the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa).”Hilaly later claimed that he had intended to suggest that “if a woman who shows herself off, she is to blame…but a man should be able to control himself.
That why Muslim women have to wear their mobile tarpaulins
Good old Taj El-Din Hilaly
** claimed Australia’s courts were racist for sentencing Bilal Skaf to 55 years’ jail for gang rape.**
**For instance pants are considered immodest for men And women**
Really ??
How can then I see Muslim girls daily, wearing inches of make up, a hijab and jeans so tight that I wonder if they can actually breathe whilst they are wearing them.
Hardly modest
To all reading this thread:
An Ottawa systems analyst, Bernard Payeur, wrote a book on the Koran he called, ‘Pain, Pleasure and Prejudice. he used a translation of Koran that he had approved by Al Azaar university, I think by Tarantawi himself. He then proceeded to use his decades of experience as a systems analyst to organize Koran in chronological order and explain its clear meaning and motives. I highly recommend all read this book.
It will end any discussions about context and so on with Koran. You will still get the odd sanctimonious idiot that claims that Koran is written in Arabic and cannot be translated or understood in any other language, even though the actions of Arab Muslims tend to play out the exact meanings we English speakers derive from that god-awful, misogynistic (did any of you know that not one woman is mentioned by name in the Koran except Mary, and she is only mentioned to make the point that she is not the mother of god?) hate filled, badly written tome.
The book is available for about eight bucks as a download, but its worth getting the paperback or hardcover version and sitting back and reading. It is, surprisingly, an enjoyable read, completely unlike Koran, which is fun only if you play the Vlad Tepes version of mumbletypeg with it.
To do that, get the best translation of Koran you can get. Remember that most English versions have been softened for a non-Muslim audience so it will add the word ‘softly’ after the sentence advising men to beat disobedient women. There is no ‘softly’ in the original Arabic Koran.
Then, dare someone to find a page that does not contain what I call, ‘laughable horror’. Let them drop open the Koran to any page they want and read from the top. Only once did I fund a page that did not break into a rousing section about hellfire, torture and killing infidels. Top paragraph of the facing page did not disappoint however.
For those people fond of the logical fallacy of false comparisons, let them try the same thing with the old or new testament. You can read hundreds of pages without that sorrt of thing in them, and much much more importantly, when you do find those sort of verses, they are typically not instructions but historical accounts or parables. Hardly the same thing as instructions for now and for all time in the future, which Koran is extremely clear, is what it claims to be.
If any of you do get Bernard’s book, I would hope that you would write a review of it for publication here. I think it is an important book and needs recognition. Bernard wrote it hoping to dispel his own prejudice about Islam based on what he had seen all his life and on the news. Doing this analysis on Koran, sadly simply explained his observations.
Shirl:
Not that this matters at all, but it adds even more insult to absurd arguments, when you factor in that women in Egypt and other Muslim countries who wear the veil and variants of it such as hijab and so on, are more harassed sexually than women who dress in a western style there. Seems that women who have the power and confidence of their own sexuality are less likely to be bothered or raped than women who are clearly submissive to men to the extent that they buy in to the notion that all the actions of men against them must be their fault somehow.
I think this speech by the good Sheik may be revealing:
Thanks Eeyore,
I think I’ll give this yarn a rip if someone has gone to all the efforts to de-mudify the ideology, allah’s snackbar!
f
He is a vile piece of trash. I feel sick at the mention of his name
Take a look at his CV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_El-Din_Hilaly
How he was ever permitted to remain in this country, when he overstayed his visa, is beyond me
His thoughts on the Skaf brothers makes me sick, animals would not have done what those ‘creatures’ did………and he says the punishment was too harsh……… OMG
I only wish we had the death penalty, but even that would be too good for them
They are the scum of the earth
Syeda your damage limitation exercise is futile. We read the Koran, we read the hadith, we read the sira, we even go to the website of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and read it from there. Your lies will only work with ignorant people. We are free people and we are not ignorant. Save your lies for politicians that can be bought. They will lap them up and pat you on head for your “truths” which are nothing but lies to those who are full of knowledge and refuse to be bought.
Shirl, the Catmeat Sheikh was allowed to stay in the country because Chris Hurford was overruled.
The Oz.
Hilaly was supposed to deliver the muslim voting bloc.
Good to see yet another Labor government looking after the interests of the country ahead of themselves. As Richo (Graham Richardson, former headkicker for the Labor Party) famously said: “Whatever It Takes.”
Yup nilk ..thanks I know
Richo only htought of himself first, he was also the world’s biggest name dropper and crawler
nowhere do i see ac exact quote where taj said women deserved to be raped if not dressed modestly. in islam men and women are both considered responsible members of society. While men are supposed to lower their gaze women are supposed to dress modestly. Why on earth is that a problem to people like you? Are muslim hatching plan in australia to impose burqa on everyone else? Does it hurt you in any way if some muslim women wear burqas?its their choice,get it?If you are so concerned about the emancipation of muslim women why dont you make resources available to them.So that if they want they can reject traditional islamic clothing?
As you yourself have noticed some women donot confirm to this concept of modesty but those who do have their personal preferances. Taj obviously does, i havent seen him wearing jeans. So he is entitled to say what he thinks and thank you not for putting words in his mouth.
as for the “dont shoot messenger” bit regarding video. i will remind you that every person has a responsibility who endorses a message to verify the content of the message. This is pure hatred and it will breed nothing but contempt in australian society. I am curious what have muslims of australia done to deserve the accussation of “you want to kill infidels?” .
Regarding Sakf case,the judge over ruled any hint of it being racial crime. It was a person who committed a crime and he was a muslim. This wasnt the first time a person hailing from a religion had comitted rape in australia.
About why muslim women wear burqa or why they dont. Do you have a telepathic connection with them that allows you to read their thoughts or minds? The sort of ignorance you guys are breeding on this site is disgusting. Honesty is the best policy. You have an issue with muslims that much is apparent but dont stoop to the level of spreading disinformation.
Syeda. *tsk*tsk*tsk*
Great taqqiya talking points, ya bloody idjit.
Kuffar Killing Koran:9:5″ Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.” Now this is quoted at the beginning of the video. It shows the atittude of muslims to kuffar. Kuffar itself is a word abuse. Like the Nazi word untermensh. A kuffar women taken captive is what? She is war booty. These men who rape kuffar women consider them part of their war booty. This verse is known as the verse of the sword and it is directed at the Kuffar.
Yusuf Ali’s5 Quran commentary, page 435, states that verses 1 – 29 were revealed during the 10th month (Shawwal), of the year A.H. 9 (630/631 A.D.). It was proclaimed by Muhammad’s cousin, Ali, to the various Muslim and non-Muslim pilgrims in Mecca to give Muhammad’s new policy a wide hearing. He also states that the rest of the Sura (30 – 129) was spoken by Muhammad months earlier, prior to the first 29 verses, and they sum up the lessons of Muhammad’s earlier expedition to Tabuk. (Most scholars I’ve read say that the passage concerning the Tabuk raid was spoken following the raid). This means that the chapter’s first passage (1-29) is chronologically the last passage spoken by Muhammad. So this is Mohammad’s last word when it comes to dealing with the Kuffar. There is a policy of abrogation when it comes to verses in the Koran. The later verses abrogate the earlier ones. Since this is the last chapter of the Koran chronologically speaking this is the final attitude to the Kuffar as revealed in the Koran.
You are idiotic @conq. Not only idiotic but balatantly shameless too. You are trying to preach your diatribes to a muslim. Koran is not read like a one dimensional science book. Every chapter,every verse comes with a background. Dont armies have shoot at sight orders? The verses you quote are not average stance towards non muslim but they were revealed at a specific time, regarding specific situation. Muslim donot consult Quran like you guys do. Their fiqh and shariah drawn out of it. Islam is a religion that has spread faster than anyother, not through sword. Which sword took it to malayasia?indonesia?which sword kept it endorsed long after arab left the regions in the world. What the prepetual lies about islam confirm is this-no valid and adult criticism of religion exists in your mind so you stoop to the level of distorting text and meaning. If the intention is to understand something you dont innovate meaning you “learn” and “seek” them from authority. Who made you an authority? What people such as yourself actually showcase is their arrogant ignorance.
May i remind you Quran is in existence since the time of Prophet(peace upon him).If this new found stupidity of western society was actually accurate than the 800 years of muslim history in rule should confirm this. Even in Jerusalem the most scared site for all three religions was kept without causing the mayhem that is currently unfolding at the hands of a zionist state supported by western hegmons. it appears to me that you lot have nothing constructive to add to any part of life so you do what you can do best-spread stupidity.
Oh dear Syeda,
If you think Yerushalim is sacred to Islam, how come whilst it was in Muslim hands, it was desecrated ?
Thanks goodness Israel captured it back from Jordan.
Jordan, although mandated by the UN to let Jews and Christians visit their holy sites, refused access to them. They also led a systematic destruction of the Jewish Quarter including many ancient synagogues . 35 to be precsie, only one was left standing.
Under Jordanian rule of East Jerusalem, all Israelis (irrespective of their religion) were forbidden from entering the Old City and other holy sites.
The Jewish Cemetery on the Mount of Olives was desecrated, with gravestones used to build toilets for Jordanian army barracks , and almost every synagogue was demolished in the period from 1948 to 1967.
“Every chapter,every verse comes with a background. Dont armies have shoot at sight orders? The verses you quote are not average stance towards non muslim but they were revealed at a specific time, regarding specific situation.”
So Syeda why do you not tell us what is the background to the sura 9:5 which is known as the sura of the sword.( I thought the Koran was the eternal word of Allah but according to you it is only specific for certain times and places!) You should know, therefore, the context to this verse since you feel that the Koran is only to be understood in this way.
If you do not know then why not look it up and tell us all. Please do so. Since you are an muslim this should be so easy for you to do.
As for the Koran (singular) being in existence since the time of the prophet then why did Uthman burn so many korans. True the Koran was in oral form, then the reciters wrote it down and then Uthman burnt all the various copies except the one he chose. This is common history know to everyone who knows about Islam but you. All scholars of Islam are aware of all these problems and many more with the Koran and they know about the hadiths that show that the Koran is missing certain verses here and there and how all the verses in the Koran came to be the way they are. But you are not aware of how the Koran came into existence. You know nothing of its actual history. You have done no research of your own and just repeat what you have been told. Still thank you for taking the time to write back. Much appreciated. Now for some recent history. Please check this out:
“In 1972, during the restoration of the Great Mosque of Sana’a, in Yemen, laborers working in a loft between the structure’s inner and outer roofs stumbled across a remarkable gravesite, although they did not realize it at the time.Their ignorance was excusable: mosques do not normally house graves, and this site contained no tombstones, no human remains, no funereal jewelry. It contained nothing more, in fact, than an unappealing mash of old parchment and paper documents — damaged books and individual pages of Arabic text, fused together by centuries of rain and dampness, gnawed into over the years by rats and insects
Some of the parchment pages in the Yemeni hoard seemed to date back to the seventh and eighth centuries A.D., or Islam’s first two centuries — they were fragments, in other words, of perhaps the oldest Korans in existence. What’s more, some of these fragments revealed small but intriguing aberrations from the standard Koranic text. Such aberrations, though not surprising to textual historians, are troublingly at odds with the orthodox Muslim belief that the Koran as it has reached us today is quite simply the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God.” Toby Lester
So much for the Koran being not altered. We have the above Koran from Yemen dating back many centuries to the very early days of Islam and it contains variations that do not line up with the Koran you read. You could find out more about this particular Koran or actually read about the Caliph Uthman and what he did to the Koran and thus educate yourself OR you could just keep repeating what you have been told. Why not do your own research?
I assure you what you will learn will amaze you. You will learn much much more than what I have said here. This is simply the beginning of what you will learn as regards how the Koran came into being in the form it is today.
One final point if you say that the Bible is corrupted they why did Allah allow this to happen? I thought the Bible was Allah’s book. If he could not prevent this from happening what kind power does Allah have that he can not even stop his book from being corrupted. If he allowed it to be corrupted than what kind of God is Allah. He just sends a book and then allows it to be corrupted. Does it make sense. If you send a text to your friend and just allow me to corrupt it and cause all kinds of trouble would you be happy? No you would prevent that if you could. So it looks as if Allah is not all powerful or he is a silly kind of God who sends books and does not even bother if they are corrrupted. Still that is Allah for you plus his prophet mohammd and his six year old bride Aisha plus his big black cube which used to house all the idols of mecca before it was cleansed of them by Mohammad. Enjoy pointing yourself to the ex house of idolatry next time you pray to Allah and his prophet.
@conq,so many thing with your posts
1) Quran is not missing any parts. Uthman had it compiled in one order and required all other companions to burn their personal copies so that their would be one uniform order in which Quran was passed on to next generation. Please quote the scholar who has admitted that Quran is missing parts since it was revealed. No dispute occurred at that time for Quran wasn’t edited or changed rather rearranged. There are too ways you can research Quran, one the order in which it was revealed and second the order that was maintained by companions. The text itself in not altered. I challenged you to produce a copy of Quran which is different to the one right now.
2) Nowhere did i bring Bible into my comments. Please quote where i mentioned Bible. The belief that you mentioned is like this, Jesus was a prophet like Moses like solom like Ibrahim (Peace on all of them). However every prophet is given a miracle. The miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is Quran which can never be erased nor altered.
Regarding why did God allow the corruption of previous texts – Why dont you tell me why did the God allow Jesus to be crucified? Or people to harm any prophet? Its simple, Allah sends his message accompanied by a messenger who preaches. Allah doesnot take a guarantee that the followers will not astray. In case of Quran that is precisely why it is called a miracle (a thing that is beyond normal). Otherwise for a text to remain as it is for 1400 years is unheard of.Regarding you yemeni Quran read following.
In 2000, The Guardian interviewed a number of academics for their responses to Puin’s claims, including Dr Tarif Khalidi, a lecturer in Islamic Studies at Cambridge University, and Professor Allen Jones, a lecturer in Koranic Studies at Oxford University. In regard to Puin’s claim that certain words and pronunciations in the Koran were not standardized until the ninth century, the article notes.[1]
Jones admits there have been ‘trifling’ changes made to the Uthmanic recension. Khalidi says the traditional Muslim account of the Koran’s development is still more or less true. ‘I haven’t yet seen anything to radically alter my view,’ he says.
[Jones] believes that the Sa’na Koran could just be a bad copy that was being used by people to whom the Uthmanic text had not reached yet. ‘It’s not inconceivable that after the promulgation of the Uthmanic text, it took a long time to filter down.’
@Shirl,here read this
Israel ‘desecrating’ 12th century Muslim cemetery:
A controversy over the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s project to build a “Museum of Tolerance” on a historic Muslim cemetery in Jerusalem has gone all the way to the United Nations. Today, families defending the twelfth century Ma’man Allah or Mamilla Cemetery from desecration by Israeli authorities filed their case before the United Nations in Geneva, with news conferences in Geneva, Los Angeles and Jerusalem. The petitioners include descendants from fifteen of the oldest families in Jerusalem whose ancestors have been buried at the cemetery for centuries.
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=37197
Yea thank goodness alright. Now please provide reference for your claims regarding muslims.
@conq i hope you realize that producing one manuscript of Quran with slight variations doesnt effectively prove that Quran has been altered. A text that is maintained through out the world in its unique, provide me another example of that with any other religion. Even if you were to find skeptics who deduced that it still doesnt prove your point that the religion has a problem it simple proves you choose not to hold a muslim view.Which is fine, nobody is asking you to confirm to muslim views. However how muslims read or interpret Quran is their business and you claiming that you know how they do it is quite inane. Regarding the Surah 9:5 ,the background is the treaty between the people of Makkah and Prophet and madina. Another important thing that i want to tell you is that Quran is not to be taught in its entirety by anyone else other than a person who knows the sarf and nahev of Arabic, has studied from a proper alim and has the permission to teach others from a recognized source. I can guide you towards the people who can teach you but i am not going to teach you myself for the reasons i mentioned already. This is a mistake that many muslims make too, you can read arabic and learn the recitation but for you to explain Quran you need more than basic translation.
Now my question to you is this is Quran the only religious text in the world that has mentioned warfare and war in it? If not,then why pick on islam?
the concept of just war exists in christianity and judaism too. refer here
most important, you ignore altogether what Jewish sources really say about fighting anti-Semitism, terrorism, and aggression.
You ignore Abraham’s military response to the kidnapping of Lot. Abraham did not enter negotiations with the kidnappers.
You ignore the rejection of peace education as a way to reform Sodom and Gomorrah.
You ignore the anti-terror policy of Simon and Levi when Dina was kidnapped.
You ignore the refusal of the Torah to sanction negotiations and coexistence with Amalek.
You ignore the anti-terror policy of Pinchas.
You ignore the instructions to Joshua about how to handle those opposing Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.
You ignore the anti-terror policy of the Prophet Samuel and the condemnation of compassion toward prisoners of King Saul.
You ignore the anti-terror policies of Yael and Deborah.
You ignore the fact that Elijah and the Bible even praise the evil King Ahab for warring against aggressors.
You ignore the refusal of Gideon, Ehud, and others to seek peaceful accommodation with aggressors and terrorists.
You ignore the fact that the Torah prohibits the granting of sovereignty to any non-Jewish power in the Land of Israel.
You ignore the anti-terror campaigns of Saul and David.
You ignore Samson’s indifference to collateral damage.
You ignore the call by the Prophet Joel (4:9-10): “… Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears. ”
You ignore the comments in Ecclesiastes about a time of war.
You ignore the way Mordechai dealt with anti-Semites at the end of the Book of Esther.
You ignore the way the Maccabees dealt with Jewish anti-Semites and collaborators with the enemy.
You ignore the fact that all real Jewish sources unambiguously favor capital punishment.
You ignore the admonition of what to do to those we know are about to attack us.
Rabbi Zvi Yehuda Kook said, “When they come to attack us, we have to persuade them with tanks.”
You ignore the fact that in Judaism annihilating evil is an integral part of creating peace and justice.
You ignore the fact that according to most rabbinic authorities, non-combatants who knowingly remain in a place where a battle is about to take place lose their right of protection.
You ignore the fact that pursuit of peace in the Bible has nothing to do with pacifism.
You ignore what Rabbi Meir of Rothenberg had to say about deals with the enemy to get hostages released.
You ignore that Torah proclamations about the value of human life are accompanied by demands that murderers be executed as a way to sanctify human life.
You ignore the fact that Jews not only pray for Jerusalem three times a day, they also pray for the destruction of Jewish anti-Semites three times a day.
You ignore the fact that most of the preaching about how nice peace is in the Bible actually refers to peace among Jews. As for Jews who pursue peace by collaborating with anti-Semites, study the policies of Pinchas and the Maccabees alluded to above.
http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/37872
Syeda Jesus was sacrificed so no other sacrifices would be needed.
Arabcoqueredpersian remind me to never, and I mean never get you mad at me.
Syeda, you are talking thousandsof years ago
We KNOW that the Bible is a collection of STORIES written by various authors.
The vile wrtings of the koran are the words of one man, A man who was a murderer, a paedophile, a bigamist and more
Two more points Syeda, in each case in the Bible where violence was ordered it was ordered on a specific person or town, not on everyone who wasn’t a Hebrew. Mohammad ordered that all non Moslems be either converted, subjugated or murdered.
Second the Bible has archeological evidence to back up its stories, the Koran doesn’t.
Here you go Syeda.. photos of the destruction of your Jordanian mates.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/destoc.html
and some testimonies
Mohammed Sayad, then about 60, of Abu-Tor, had been the watchman for the “Congregation of Jerusalem” burial society.
Q: Just how did you perform your duties as watchman?
A: What could I do? If I had spoken out against the government, they would have shot me on the spot…I was ready to do my job as watchman. And I want the burial society that hired me to pay me now what they owe me for all these years. It’s not my fault that the (Jordanian) Government decided to destroy the cemetery…
Khalil Ibn Sadar Khalil, then 33, is the son of Sadar Khalil, who had served on behalf of the Jordanian Government as caretaker of the Mount of Olives cemetery, At the outbreak of hostilities in June, 1967, Sadar Khalil fled to Amman.
Q: What was your father’s job?
A: He was supposed to see to it that private individuals did not take out tombstones or other stones without a permit from the Government. There were several merchants who held concessions that allowed them to trade in stones from the cemetery. All the rest we would chase away…
Q: Who paid your father’s salary?
A: The City did. Mayor Anwar el-Khatib sent the cheques.
Q: How were the graves mutilated?
A: Workmen came during the day and pulled apart the stones and the tombstones and at night the army lorries came, loaded up the tombstones and drove off. The rest of the stones were taken by the merchants.
Ali Mohammed Ali, then 25, part-owner of a filling station on the Jerusalem-Jericho highway, widened by the Jordanian authorities at the expense of the Mount of Olives cemetery.
Q: Did you know about the defacement and destruction of graves?
A: Everybody know. Anyone who needed building stones used to go to these merchants and buy stones from Jewish graves…
Mohammed Ahmed el-Khak, who claimed to be 111 years old, referred to himself as a “municipal gardener.”
Q: Did you see how they ravaged the graves?
A: Yes I saw. All the people around here knew about it, but I didn’t know it was forbidden. According to the Koran, a cemetery in which there haven’t been any burials for fifteen years may be destroyed.
Q: When did they begin with this destruction here?
A: Oh, a long time ago-maybe in 1949 already…
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/destestomony.html
No Syeda, Islamically speaking, women are encouraged to wear body bags, forced to become invisible, unidentifiable blobs with no identity, no dignity and no freedom hidden among a sea of men who wear pants. The concept of modesty is not alien to the west; by our definition it is best achieved through the mores of personal liberty, a concept foreign to sharia.
BTW, doesn’t every sheik, mullah and cleric proclaim to be an expert in Islam? We don’t have to go too far to find one as they’re all over the internet proudly spewing the same intolerant rhetoric, day after day, year after year. Shameful? you bet.
Oh and Syeda, another thing: even if all of the rabble-babble nonsense you cite is true, which it isn’t, what does any of it have to do with the present threat of Islamic terrorism aimed at the west?
Syeda at last resorts to what I call, ‘Muslim ‘Jewdo’. How that works is this:
1. Muslims do all sorts of repugnant and unimaginable things to try and destroy the nations that are kind enough to let them in (when they beg for mercy to get away from their fellow peaceful Muslims) which…
2. understandably pisses of the residents of the nations the Muslims move to.
3. The Muslims then take the anger that they themselves have generated amongst their hosts, and try and use the inertia of that anger, by directing it at their ancient self made enemy, the Jewish people, much like a judo fighter uses the energy of his enemy to knock him down. Simple as 1, 2, 3.
Muslims kill a lot of people and act like spoiled self centred pests.
Muslims attempt to direct the anger they create at the people they want eliminated by claiming they are responsible somehow, for the horrors that Islam does.
I also notice that she never once even attempted a feeble answer to my questions. Questions she herself asked for. By the way, does your husband or father or brother know you visit this site? Why not tell them and see what they say. Better wear a phone book under the back of that burka when you do.
She might want to wear a flak jacket and have some kind of protection on her neck also.
I taught in Perth in ’96 on a teacher exchange, the year the insipid government decided to eliminate firearm possession by citizens, and said to my Aussie friends that their country would be in deep sh!t because that was the first step in taking all power from people and putting it in the hands of gov’t officials. Yeah, I survived Hitler & WWII, and know full well what precedes a loss of freedom by national socialism, which is where poor Australia is headed.
Now that the gov’t has caved in to political correctness and protects jihadis like that sh!tbag Hilali, Australians are going to have to learn to cower in their homes at night because roving gangs of Muslims will own the nights. I predict more car-b-ques in Oz cities, gang rapes, beatings, stabbings etc. It’s only just begun.
At least, let’s start with simple steps, people. Don’t call their “holy” book the Qur’an but use koran. Don’t accept the honorific “peace be upon him” when some brainwashed Muslim uses it after that paedophile Muhammud, but let’s use “bacon be on him” instead, and let’s start taking some of these jihadi-spouting imams to court for inciting hatred against citizens. Don’t be gullible and accept that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, as none of them speak out against Islamist violence to native populations, so are complicit in the Islamification of every country they reside in, and none consider Christians as equal to themselves. Start complaining to gov’t agencies about Muslims who abuse the welfare system in your neighborhoods. Don’t let your news media become conveyers of Islamic propaganda under the PC umbrella, but question them instead… not everyone is clued into excellent vehicles such as this blog. But above all, let’s become more proactive in the fight against Islamification, for it is a war against the intended world caliphate that all Islam intends to impose on the civilized world.
Eeyore, I’ve noticed another trend:
1. Move to a kind, liberal western nation.
2. Plot to terrorize that kind, liberal nation by planning an attack, hoping to kill, injure or maim innocents.
3. If caught, cry, then call friends to rally in a show of support. They’ll show up to ridicule the same liberal court providing the fair trial.
4. Get Muslim organizations to bombard the media with claims of islamphobia and racism, claiming the anti-terrorism laws are anti-Muslim. (just because all the terrorists are Muslim).
5. Illicit as much sympathy from the left as possible.
6. Refer to the al-Qaeda handbook which strongly suggests claiming torture if threatened with deportation back to religion of peace homeland.
7. If incarcerated, attempt to sue the host nation for millions.
8. If successful, send won funds back to family in homeland, saving some leftover money to buy a new, souped up Toyota with an 8-track upon release.
9. Get out of jail.
10. Move back to same homeland of peaceful Muslims, only considered threatening when facing consequences from host nation.
11. Write a book and blame the Jews.
Alienated you have some real good ideas there, but you need to really stress the pedophile bit, that will make a lot of people disgusted with Islam, and when talking to the more intelligent ones suggest they get a copy of the Koran printed in chronological order and read it. And get read for a real bumpy ride because I don’t see much but trouble for several years.
Good post Alienated
We could do with you on the ‘Australian Islamist Monitor’, which Vlad has listed as ‘Islamist Monitor’ Affectionately known as AIM
http://www.islammonitor.org/
now that all of you have high fived each other and patted virtual backs of your mutual prejudice and arrogance agaisnt a minority, you must feel good. Isn’t it the most civil and honorable thing to do to pick on people in fewer numbers than you. Spread lies abotu them. Fail to intelligently talk or discuss.You think you are doing australia a service spreading hate. I certainly dont wish you any sort of luck.
no response shirl i see for the cemtery issue at the hands of Jewish state. May be cat got your tongue.
Some third rate analysis of migration from muslim countries by the genius who runs this site and has the audacity to accuse me of “shying” away from his pristine information and data stock. Which is based on his hallucination.whre he probably plays the role of no less significance than Jesus himself. Your grip on world politics especially the socio-economic climate is awe inspiring.
Regarding your jew do theory(theory indeed).Here are some pointers though i doubt the fog clogging your neurons will let you understand.
What have australian muslims done to deserve this vitriol directed at them.
they were behind 9/11. Oh no but htey werent. But there were muslims behind 9/11.
They did bali. Oh but those were indonesian but they were muslims too.
So far all australian muslims have in common with “terrorist” is the fact that they share a religion. Well if this hypothesis is accurate then 20% of world is terrorist. World would be a much worse place if that was to true.
Regarding the” jewdo” since you guys keep bringing verses in Quran up.This was from jewish press ,they admit to it openly. But no, i must be the master mind behind it too.Hypnotized them to write about it.
WELL V.. true to type
Making out you are the master of it all and yet you appear to be unable to read.
The cemetery issue was at the hands of the Jordanians. If you bother to read back, no I’ll repost. You can then print it out and get someone to read it for you
Let’s try again, if your pea size brain can handle it !
Here you go Syeda.. photos of the destruction of your Jordanian mates.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/destoc.html
and some testimonies
Mohammed Sayad, then about 60, of Abu-Tor, had been the watchman for the “Congregation of Jerusalem” burial society.
Q: Just how did you perform your duties as watchman?
A: What could I do? If I had spoken out against the government, they would have shot me on the spot…I was ready to do my job as watchman. And I want the burial society that hired me to pay me now what they owe me for all these years. It’s not my fault that the (Jordanian) Government decided to destroy the cemetery…
Khalil Ibn Sadar Khalil, then 33, is the son of Sadar Khalil, who had served on behalf of the Jordanian Government as caretaker of the Mount of Olives cemetery, At the outbreak of hostilities in June, 1967, Sadar Khalil fled to Amman.
Q: What was your father’s job?
A: He was supposed to see to it that private individuals did not take out tombstones or other stones without a permit from the Government. There were several merchants who held concessions that allowed them to trade in stones from the cemetery. All the rest we would chase away…
Q: Who paid your father’s salary?
A: The City did. Mayor Anwar el-Khatib sent the cheques.
Q: How were the graves mutilated?
A: Workmen came during the day and pulled apart the stones and the tombstones and at night the army lorries came, loaded up the tombstones and drove off. The rest of the stones were taken by the merchants.
Ali Mohammed Ali, then 25, part-owner of a filling station on the Jerusalem-Jericho highway, widened by the Jordanian authorities at the expense of the Mount of Olives cemetery.
Q: Did you know about the defacement and destruction of graves?
A: Everybody know. Anyone who needed building stones used to go to these merchants and buy stones from Jewish graves…
Mohammed Ahmed el-Khak, who claimed to be 111 years old, referred to himself as a “municipal gardener.”
Q: Did you see how they ravaged the graves?
A: Yes I saw. All the people around here knew about it, but I didn’t know it was forbidden. According to the Koran, a cemetery in which there haven’t been any burials for fifteen years may be destroyed.
Q: When did they begin with this destruction here?
A: Oh, a long time ago-maybe in 1949 already…
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/destestomony.html
“@conq i hope you realize that producing one manuscript of Quran with slight variations doesnt effectively prove that Quran has been altered. ” So Allah allowed according to you one text with a variation. So why is Allah allowing this? I thought Allah controlled everything. Inshallah. Not only that the hadith supports you.
The hadiths admit many textual variations.“Narrated by Hazrat ?’ishah that ayat-e-Rajm and ayat Raza’at were revealed, they were written on something. I kept them under the cart, meanwhile the holy prophet died and we became busy and one GOAT came and ATE those ayyat” (Ibn-e-Maja).
From al-Tabari, p.1523: “The only fault I ever found in ‘?’ishah is that, when I was kneading my dough and ordered her to watch it, she fell asleep over it, and the pet sheep (or a goat) came and ate it.”
This is further confirmed Bukhari. Volume 8, Book 82, Number 824:
Narrated Ash-Shaibani: I asked ‘Abdullah bin Abi ‘Aufa about the Rajam (stoning somebody to death for committing illegal sexual intercourse). He replied, “The Prophet carried out the penalty of Rajam,” I asked, “Was that before or after the revelation of Surat-an-Nur?” He replied, “I do not know.”
Where is the Stoning Verse? Goat Ate it! Why did Allah allow that Goat to eat that Koran verse? Has he no control over the goat population! This Allah cannot even control a goat.
Part of the Eternal Uncorrupted Koran Lost in the War After the battle of Badr, many reciters of Koran died. The complete Koran was not yet written. Those who survived, forgot a few. In this context, it is important to read what Hadith says about it. Abu Musa al-Ash’ari, one of the early authorities on the Qur’an text and a companion of Muhammad, is reported to have said to the reciters of Basra: “We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara’at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: “If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust”.Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.501).
Koran Has Been Revealed In Seven Different Ways. Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61
Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab: I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah’s Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah’s Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, “Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?” He replied, “Allah’s Apostle taught it to me”. I said, “You have told a lie, for Allah’s Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours”. So I dragged him to Allah’s Apostle and said, “I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven’t taught me!”. On that Allah’s Apostle said, “Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!” Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah’s Apostle said, “It was revealed in this way”, and added, “Recite, O Umar”, I recited it as he had taught me. Allah’s Apostle then said, “It was revealed in this way. This Qur’an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you.”
So this is just the beginning. It is clear as day that the Koran is changed. And I have not even mentioned the Satanic verses which are not included in the Koran because Satan spoke words to Mohammad and he could not even tell the difference that these words are the Koran or not. So Satan has met the challenge of the Koran by composing a Koran verse like it! Why did Allah not control Satan. We saw he could not contol the goat now we see he cannot even control Satan. Satan is even allowed to compose a verse in the Koran and get away with it for a while. It is even accepted by Mohammad as a legitimate verse. Satan and Goats are not controlled by Allah and are responsibe for the fate of Koran verses! This is the Allah you worship. He cannot even control his own creation the Koran, Satan, and a Goat!
Finally, we do not need lessons from you Syeda on how to read the Koran. We are not muslims and do not read it like you in your brainwashed little world. We are quite capable of reading it for ourselves and coming to our own conclusions. Have you heard of Mark Gabriel. He was a proff at Al Azhar. He saw through the whole brain washing processs and gave up Islam. He is more educated than you and came up with a different conclusion to you. He has left Islam and seen it to be the terrorist religion it is.
^that is again a pile of rubbish. Allah allowed one manuscripts variation? Well this is one of the most bizarre and banal accussations i have heard. When the Quran is said to be the miracle for it being unchanged then it doesnt mean that no publisher is going to make a mistake printing it. It means the there will always be Quran in existence that is verbatim from the Prophet’s time. It can be memorised by people as it is. For instance if i was to draw parallels, which other religion has a book that they claim is verbatim of its original form? Bible is touched and retouched, the language is not preserved, the old testament same.
However,i still fail to see what it the relevance of your belief about Quran being a divine book or not? You choose not to believe in islam, so? What is happening here is that you are trying to justify the hatred you hold against muslims becaues you consider their religion to be man made. Well than you should be one of the most vile person around because you cannot tolerate any religion that you donot believe in. If you are to say that there are specific problems with in Quran than you need to substantiate those claims by proving that those same problems donot occur in any other religion. To make the problem unique to islam.First you came up with the war fare issue, but that is a major part of belief in judaism too. Now what? Let me tell you something people with agenda usually hail from a certain background thats warps their good sense. I don’t know what repugnant theories you have taught yourself to believe that spreading lies and spreading hatred has become noble to you.
Syeda in order to justify fighting wars to spread Judaism or Christianity you have to twist and pervert the words in the Torah and the Bible but Mohammad ordered the Moslems to make war on the unbelievers until they convert, pay the poll tax or are dead. When Jews and Christians immigrate to a new nation the work hard to learn the culture of the new nation and fit in, when Moslems immigrate to a new nation they work hard to make their new home change to have only their culture. Those are the reasons people don’t like what the Moslems are doing, those are the reasons no one believes what you are saying, we don’t want to become Moslem and you don’t want to live in a nation where the Moslems aren’t supreme. Why don’t you work hard to adapt to our culture and actively oppose the people who are doing the violence in the name of Islam? If you do that we will decide that not all Moslems are bad, until then all you are doing is ensuring that no one trusts you.
Wrong again Syeda
The Torah, the Five Books of Moses, which are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy
They were penned around c 950 BCE, possibly and most likely earlier.
They are unchanged. That’s why the Torah is always hand written and meticulously checked and re-checked.
One of my uncles was one of the scholars who helped read the “Dead Sea Scrolls”
He was astounded that they are unchanged since that time
Well said Richard
They also need to be able to take a joke and not threaten to kill anyone who mentions MOH. “blessed be he” and all that crap.