An important post by Gates of Vienna on ritual slaughter and antisemitism

From Gates of Vienna:

When I was a kid back in the ’50s and ’60s, “blue laws” were still in force in Virginia, both at the state and the local levels. These laws were fairly common in the South in those days, when Baptists and Methodists were predominant in public life — as is still mostly the case.

Blue laws in Virginia meant that you couldn’t buy certain things on Sundays. Alcohol was the main target, but there were other items whose sale was restricted on the Sabbath. Some counties were completely “dry” — they forbade the sale of alcoholic beverages on any day of the week. If you lived in one of those counties and had a taste for the sauce, you had to drive to another county to stock up, or make contact with a moonshine distributor. White lightning is still common today, especially in the more mountainous regions of the Commonwealth.

Widespread opposition to the blue laws arose in the 1970s, and most of them were repealed. But some counties — Pittsylvania is one — still prohibit the sale of booze on Sunday.

The impulse behind these laws was religious, but they weren’t framed using religious terms. They simply reflected local sentiment as expressed in legislation at the state or county level. Thus they were completely constitutional.

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I bring all this up because of a controversy that erupted recently in the Netherlands. Geert Wilders, the leader of the Party for Freedom, has been attacked as “anti-Semitic” because of his support for a ban on ritual slaughter (both kosher and halal) in his country.

Regular readers know how laughable it is to accuse Geert Wilders — who is regarded by serious Jew-haters as a “tool of the Zionists” — of anti-Semitism. But it gets worse: Manfred Gerstenfeld described Mr. Wilders as “a guy who is at forefront of the anti-Semitism movement in Europe”.

I dread broaching the topic in this space, because I know all too well what discussions like this one can turn into. Rational thought is discarded, civil discourse is thrown out the window, and we get caught between the Scylla of a angry Jews and the Charybdis of angry Jew-haters.

However, given the stature of Geert Wilders in the European Counterjihad movement, this conversation can’t be avoided.

The background to the story is this: an animal rights party in the Netherlands proposed a bill requiring that all livestock must be stunned before being slaughtered. The lower of house of the Dutch parliament passed the bill last year, but it failed in the senate. Mr. Wilders and the PVV support such a ban.

Halal and kosher laws require animals to be conscious when they are killed. Every year thousands of cattle in the Netherlands are slaughtered according both forms of religious law.

A prominent Dutch rabbi recently attacked Mr. Wilders for his stance. According to Yahoo News:

Rabbi Warns Dutch Populist Wilders Over Ritual Slaughter Ban

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) – Israel’s leading rabbi has warned Dutch populist politician Geert Wilders that his party’s support for a ban of ritual slaughter of animals in the Netherlands is “anti-Semitic” and could drive away the country’s Jewish community.

[…]

Some of his most outspoken supporters are in the conservative, pro-Israeli movement in the United States. Wilders calls himself Israel’s “greatest friend” and has also proposed creating a national Dutch holiday to commemorate the victims of the Auschwitz concentration camp.

In a letter to Wilders on Tuesday, a copy of which was obtained by Reuters on Wednesday, Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger called on Wilders’ Freedom Party to stop backing a ban on ritual slaughter.

It is the strongest public condemnation yet of Wilders’ position on the policy and comes two weeks before the Netherlands holds a general election September 12 in which he is expected to take a sizeable portion of the vote.

Here’s where it gets sticky:

“It is obvious that one cannot be at the same time a friend of Israel and the Jewish people and on the other hand support an anti-Jewish law,” Metzger wrote.

“By denying Jews to live according to the Torah you will eventually force them to leave the Netherlands where they enjoyed religious freedom for centuries.”

First of all, this is not about being a “friend of Israel”. One can be a friend of Israel without insisting that one’s own country follow Jewish law.

This is about the law of the land. The Netherlands is not a Jewish state. It is a secular democratic country with a long Christian tradition. The laws of the Netherlands do not have to comply with Jewish law; they must simply reflect the views and preferences of Dutch citizens.

If Jews cannot in good conscience abide by the law of the land, then yes, they may want to move to Israel — and thank God they have that choice! But the law is not required to bend to their wishes; they are obliged to accede to the law as determined by the majority of their fellow Dutch citizens.

This seems fairly simple and straightforward to me, but some Jews find it “anti-Semitic”.

“This is the classical anti-Semitic way our rites have been targeted and demonized throughout history,” he wrote.

I’m certain that many Jew-haters may have targeted kosher slaughter in the past, but it does not follow that everyone who opposes ritual slaughter is prima facie anti-Semitic. This is a non sequitur.

Click to continue:

About Eeyore

Canadian artist and counter-jihad and freedom of speech activist as well as devout Schrödinger's catholic

34 Replies to “An important post by Gates of Vienna on ritual slaughter and antisemitism”

  1. A number of points I think add to the discussion, but first I will say quite clearly, I keep a kosher kitchen, we only occasionally buy kosher meat, but due to the expense its fairly rare, and mostly poultry which I hope is not within the scope of any intended ban.
    Luckily we all like fish which is plentiful and healthy where we are.

    Whenever ritual slaughter is discussed, halal and kosher are described as the same, this is very wrong.
    Regard for animal welfare is extreme with kosher laws (we don’t let kids hack at goats in the street), even a bruise on the animal makes it unkosher, the sharpness of the blade must be like a razor, the idea is the animal doesn’t even know it’s been cut, so it is also very long so only a single stroke can be used. This is not the case with halal where we see lambs being hacked at with dull blades.
    there are many other differences. Many are listed here which I believe is of some authority http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

    Without counter jihad movements even talking about ritual slaughter and circumcision there is already a great fear that the movements are racist, while we all know that is untrue, it’s a suspicion many people have. The fact that one of hitlers first laws attacking Jews was to ban kosher slaughter will confirm for many Jews suspicions they held, it is a very sensitive issue and I am disappointed Geert didn’t handle it better.

    I believe the main issue which gets us all riled is that there is so much halal, labelled or not, major supermarkets, fast food restaurants and local authorities using it because it’s basically cheaper, thereby you are all forced to eat it (obviously I don’t :)). The vast majority of halal meat is unlabelled whereas the opposite is true of kosher.

    Another thing that is actually pertinent here is that most halal authorities do allow stunning, but at a lower voltage, and in muslims sharia laws if halal meat is not available they can eat the local meat, there is no similar allowances for Jews in halacha (Jewish law).

    I know the intention is not anti-Semitic, but the action would be very harmful to Jews, many would take it personally, and for a group who really don’t ask for much but often contribute a great deal to society, a very bad move.

  2. I personally don’t see anything wrong with the ritual slaughter if it is done on only part of the meat, as is done with the Kosher meat. I also don’t see anything wrong with male circumcision, the ban may be aimed at the Moslems (in which case it is poorly worded) but given the growing antisemitism in Europe it probably isn’t.

  3. Sometimes Jews are their own worst enemies. Even if they use razor sharp knives, I’m reasonably certain the animal suffers more than they should. Apart from that, the general public can see no difference between halal and kosher slaughter. Why they would still insist on this ritual is beyond my comprehension. And how could Geert call for a ban on halal without a similar ban on kosher? This would only give the koranimals and useful idiots ammunition.

  4. To overturn this diabolical practice, there is no alternative but to ban Halal. The law has to apply to all, or it makes no sense to apply it all. This Jewish rabbi better understand, that if nothing is done to make Muslim unwelcome in the West, it is the Jews who will suffer the most. But regardless of that, Geert Wilders has to concern himself with first defending European culture, and secondarily, the concerns of Jews.

  5. Halal or Kosher, its still barbaric. Times change, and so should the treatment of animals. Stunning the animal before cutting their throats is a sane and painless way. Why must an animal suffer just to satisfy some sick ritual. Maybe black magic should be allowed, or bring back the ancient practices of the Mayan Indians. Sacrificing a young child to satisfy the sun God. Do we really want to remain in the stone age? We see medical operations now using lasers that make it much less painfull. Why can’t we presume that the sane way is the best way when slaughtering your next meal? Have you not seen the videos of Muslims cutting the throats of Cows and sheep? Do you really think they suffer less if a sharp blade is use. Give me a break.

  6. Quote:

    “This is about the law of the land. The Netherlands is not a Jewish state. It is a secular democratic country with a long Christian tradition. The laws of the Netherlands do not have to comply with Jewish law; they must simply reflect the views and preferences of Dutch citizens.”

    This mode of thinking works, only so long as the demographic factor remains overwhelmingly non-Muslim. Political correctness is the brunt of the problem here. So long as the situation remains politically unsavvy to address the real problem – which is Islamic hegemony or simply Islam – any attempt to address these issues will ultimately fail with time. Muslim demographics do not bode well for the Netherlands. All these issues filter down to conflict with Islam. The answer is simple . . .ban Islam.

  7. AMSTERDAM (Reuters) – Israel’s leading rabbi has warned Dutch populist politician Geert Wilders that his party’s support for a ban of ritual slaughter of animals in the Netherlands is “anti-Semitic” and could drive away the country’s Jewish community.

    A similar statement from a rabbi in Germany at proposals to ban circumcision. The rabbi was outraged, and threatened that such a law would lead to Jews leaving Germany.

    I use the word “threatened” deliberately, as the rabbi knows full well that Germany is hyper-sensitive to any criticism from Jews, particularly the threat to leave Germany.

    Halal method of slaughter is inhumane, is inconsistent with modern European norms, and should be banned. If Jews or Muslims wish to leave the Netherlands, they are free to do so.

    If Muslims wish to riot, thats their business, but there should be no compromise on fundamental issues. Rioters will be taken care off by the usual methods.

  8. The problem is this: applying ancient practices- ritual- to 21st century idustrialized meat processing units- that is what makes kosher and halal partcularly barbaric. How can it be justified for any reason, least of all on religious grounds? As it is animals are treated like vegatables and processed for the dinner table in the same way, exploited to the very end Animals are live sentinment beings- and the same life force that sustains the poor dumb creatures sustains us all. It is atrocity against nature!

  9. All these arguments in favor of compassion for animals is completely avoiding the nature of this beast – and by beast, I’m not referring to the four legged kind. Dancing around the threat of Islam is simply extending time for the threat to gain & strengthen its foothold and expand at an exponential rate.

    Reflect for a moment on where we in the US were in regards to our awareness of Islam when the Marine Barracks in Beirut was bombed 1983 . . .or at the 1993 WTC bombing . We remained asleep too long. 9/11 should have awoken this sleeping giant . . .instead, taqiyya continues to buy time till the next catastrophic jihad event. As we sit and twiddle our thumbs around ‘human rights’ and ‘freedom of religion’, mosques continue to be expanded upon and built, school textbooks are modified to reflect Islamic approval of contents, history is rewritten through absurd contortions giving false credit to Islam/muslims for scientific advancements which have consistently evaded every Islamic population on the planet throughout its 14 century existence. Public discourse is continuously challenged by shariah advocates through litigation jihad, university programs are challenged/filtered through the eyes of MSA, ISNA, CAIR etc. I could go on and on. Islam hasn’t contributed anything worthwhile mentioning to society, yet we are constantly reminded to be tolerant and open to dawa.

    Yet, no one has been forced to keep kosher around Jews. Neither have Jews imposed kosher meat unto any population. No one has been forced to change their lifestyles or discourse. Jews do not fly planes into buildings, or drive explosive laden boats into military ships/barracks. Jewish contributions benefit every society without imposing an iota of kosher influence upon them. Anyone, including police, medics and fire fighters can traverse into any Jewish community without threat of harm.

    It is no mere coincidence that as the percentage of Muhammedans in a community rises, so does antisemitism/judeophobia.

    It is NOT racist to identify the source of the problem . . .Islam. That is not the same as accusing all Muslims of guilt. The problem surfaces with the increasing level of devotion to this creed. It is the Islamic creed that incites jihad against ‘the other’ until all worship is for allah and the non-believers are subdued to dhimmitude under the shariah.

    Islam must be banned to put an end to this threat once and for all. Pussy-footing around with halal/kosher butchering is simply giving the enemy time to strengthen.

  10. From what I noted, very few Buddhist are vegetarians. Even in predominantly Buddhist countries such as Thailand and Cambodia, one have difficulty finding any vegetarian meals for us infidels who prefer vegetarian meals.

  11. Religious lunacy again trumps all common sense in the 21 st century. Disgusting. If Jewish zealots want their religious mumbo-jumbo protected, they should move to Israel then. (Although even in Israel religion is not above everything ! I’m Israeli, I know what I’m talking about.)

  12. I must agree with the author of the article when he says: “The law of the land must be obeyed by all citizens — period.”

  13. The issue about halal meat in particular was about the plentiful supply of cheap meat. It was another money making racket, a profitable, tax free one with that. No one except the minority religious folk knew what they were eating because the meat was not labelled. Even sausages or bangers were mixed with all sorts, chicken and beef with turkey rashers, the bacon even became suspect. Pure dollop! There is no respect for the consumer, whom they assume would eat anything if they did not belong to a minority religion.There is hard core secularism aided by the MC policies at work for you!

  14. If the ban goes through, there will eventually be an exemption for, or non-prosecution of, Muslims.

    Bet on it.

    And to the person above who said the answer is simple, “just ban Islam.”

    Nice idea but if you did, you’d suddenly have 1000s of leftist thugs who miraculously convert just to be assholes.

  15. to grond :

    Muslims are already “de facto” ignoring the law everywhere and the “infidel” authorities do almost nothing about it.

    So what if thousands of leftards convert to jizzlam when this degenerate evil cult is outlawed ? These idiots were a problem already, anyway. So if they get themselves outside the law – good ! Personally, I’d love to get rid of these insane rat bastards too !

  16. Kosher slaughter is not intended as a blood sacrifice.
    The meaning of Halal slaughter is clear, it is a blood sacrifice to a demon,
    and practice for jihad against the infidel.
    The duller the knife, the more cruel it is, all the better to dull the hearts of the mujahadeen.
    If I lived in a Christian state, one establishing Christianity, I would allow Kosher slaughter because it is an acknowledgment that “salvation is from the Jews.”
    As I live in a secular state, I think Halal slaughter, with its casualness, its openness, its anti-social and anti-Western meaning, should be viewed with deep suspicion.

  17. I don’t ever recall ever, a problem with Jewish meat being put into places where anyone but Jewish would consume the products.

    However, there is a serious concern because of the numbers of immigrants, and because of trade practices now, where there is a huge market for the islamic slaughtered meat…

    Consequently, it is being forced on the public, both in the market place, unlabeled
    and in many various venues, where people are unaware they are consuming this substand slaughtered meat with voodoo curses put on it…

    There are no, absolutely no regulations in Canada, that this voodoo slaughtered meat
    must be labelled as such, in other words, appeasing once again to the idiot islamic low iq type hoards……

    It is labelled for them, and there are special regulations to protect their idiot belief systems, but what about the rest of us? denada

  18. and by the way, there are lots of crazy jews, look at all the lunatics that support obama

    and do not support Israel, scrambled brain type people in all cultures,

    send that rabbi back to rabbiland,

    there is a serious concern of anti=semitism moving throughout the world, that these dhimmis are not even slightly aware of and to pick on someone like Geert Wilders,
    indicates this rabbi isn’t taking his meds

    GEERT has the support of people like Pam Geller, and Robert Spencer and that speaks enough for me

  19. wtd wrote: Islam must be banned to put an end to this threat once and for all. Pussy-footing around with halal/kosher butchering is simply giving the enemy time to strengthen.

    Banning Islam would be an acknowledgement that all our much touted principles of religious tolerance is just a sham. Now one can argue that Islam is not a religion in the normal sense, but that will not wash. Islam is accepted as a religion, and thats that.

    Banning Halal, or for that matter circumcision, is not about Islam or Judaism, but about our cultural norms. If most Muslims left Europe as they could not buy Halal meat, or practice circumcision without incurring a penalty, then that is their decision.

    In the meantime we must make loud and clear, that we have nothing against Islam as such, and believe in tolerance, the non-violation of the genitals of children, and humane treatment of animals.

  20. “In the meantime we must make loud and clear, that we have nothing against Islam as such, and believe in tolerance, the non-violation of the genitals of children, and humane treatment of animals.”

    Who is “we,” the leaders of Europe? They’re the reason this situation exists. They’re leftists and if there is one thing leftists never do, it’s admit their policies were wrong.

    I maintain that, be it official or unofficial (someone above said it already is), there WILL be an exemption for Muslims but not for Jews. Everyone will know it, the media will memoryhole it, nothing will be done about it.

  21. Here is how it will actually go if we implement these sorts of measures.

    Religious Jews, normally law abiding over all and cooperative, will pack up and leave. Muslims, who are supremacist and genuinely in the process of establishing their rule here, will not obey the laws and continue to force their sensibilities on the rest of us using any and all means at their disposal.

    At some point in the next 48 hours I hope to write up my thoughts on this whole problem. It is an issue that needs to be leeched out of the social body with a poultice as it is a semantic, NOT Semitic, problem we have had left undefined for a long time.

  22. “Religious Jews, normally law abiding over all and cooperative, will pack up and leave.”

    Leaving secular, nonreligious, oblivious Jews to be the scapegoats that Jews are always turned into whenever things go tango uniform in Europe…but this time they’ll have BOTH white, antisemitic leftists AND Muslim implants working together to strike at their necks…just like when their ol’ uncle Adolf’s was canoodlin’ with the Mufti.

    You’d think more people would learn from their own history.

  23. addendum:

    Only this time, barring victorious pro-liberty civil wars across the continent (very unlikely), Europe’s Muslims will be dictating the terms to the natives and setting policies. I give it 10 years, 20 max.

  24. Eeyore you are right, I hadn’t thought of it that way it will drive out the law abiding, (both and religious secular) and leaving the troublemakers.

  25. grond Who is “we,” the leaders of Europe? They’re the reason this situation exists. They’re leftists and if there is one thing leftists never do, it’s admit their policies were wrong.

    This is war. Dissimulation and disinformation are part of the war.

  26. Many Jews would be horrified at what they would say was disrespect for the animal to do anything other than kosher slaughter, there is a large element of respect for the animal in kosher laws. Consider why milk and meat are not mixed, “do not cook a kid in its mother’s milk”. halal has no such understanding of animal welfare.

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