UPDATE Sky News video of protest:
More video of grateful Muslims thanking British soldiers for helping protect the land they all moved to:
From The Daily Mail:
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 1:05 PM on 11th November 2010
Islamic protesters sparked fury today after they burned a model of a poppy and deliberately broke the silence at Armistice Day commemorations in central London.
As millions of Britons fell silent to remember those who have died in war, members of a group called Muslims Against Crusades clashed with police during an ’emergency demonstration’ in Kensington, west London.
As the clock struck 11am, the Islamic protesters burned a model of a poppy and chanted ‘British soldiers burn in hell’.
Fanning the flames: The protesters burn a poppy while an English Defence League counter-demonstrator is led away from the scene near Hyde Park in west London today
They held banners which read ‘Islam will dominate’ and ‘Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell’.
The Muslims Against Crusades website includes graphic images of children wounded in warfare and the torture of detainees at Abu Ghraib.
The protest, in Exhibition Road, near Hyde Park, involved about 50 people while about another 50 counter-demonstrators had to be kept apart from the group by a line of police.
Three men were arrested at the scene, two for public order offences and one for assaulting a police officer.
Asad Ullah, of Muslims Against Crusades, said: ‘We are demonstrating because this day is a day of remembrance to remember every single fallen soldier, including those killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.
‘We find it disgusting that innocent people, innocent children, have been killed in an illegal and unjust war and we are demonstrating against that.
‘We want the Government to pull the troops out from these countries and to stop interfering in our affairs.’
Mr Ullah added: ‘We would like to have a protest closer to the memorial but it is difficult to get access. We want to break the silence and say, “What about the silence for others that have died?'”
Earlier this year, members of the group were involved in violent clashes with far-Right groups during a troop march in Barking, east London.
A series of incendiary comments were posted on a social networking website linked to the English Defence League.
Some members pledged to attend while others showered the Islamic group with abuse and criticised police for allowing the demonstration to take place.
It is understood the event is taking place in Kensington because it is outside a protected zone around Parliament where spontaneous protests are banned.
Police were questioning people they suspected were preparing to travel to Kensington after arriving at Victoria Station.
It is thought Muslims Against Crusades is a splinter group of Islam4UK, founded by Anjem Choudary.
Elsewhere as the clock struck 11am, the nation paused to mark the anniversary of Armistice Day, when peace returned to Europe at the end of the First World War.
Wearing their poppies with pride, people joined in the two-minute silence as various commemoration services and events were held around the country.
The agreement between Germany and the Allies after four years of fighting took effect at the ‘eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month’ of 1918.
Defence Secretary Liam Fox and the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams joined war heroes, service personnel, veterans, military associations and schoolchildren for a service of remembrance at the Cenotaph in Whitehall, central London.
Prime Minister David Cameron marks Remembrance Day at Gloster Valley, South Korea where he laid a wreath
The road was closed and crowds lined the street for the poignant ceremony and wreath-laying.
Amid grey skies and damp conditions, there was applause as Victoria and George Cross holders took their places around the monument.
David Cameron marked Remembrance Day by laying a wreath at the site of the British Army’s bloodiest battle since the end of the Second World War.
The 1st Battalion, Gloucestershire Regiment, were cut off and surrounded by vastly superior Chinese Communist forces during the Battle of the Imjin River from April 22 to 25, 1951, in the Korean War.
Running short of water and ammunition, the ‘Glorious Glosters’ held their hilltop position through a full day and a night, repelling waves of Chinese attackers.
Some 59 men died in the defence of the hill and 526 were taken prisoner – 180 of them wounded. Another 34 men died in captivity.
But their heroic stand delayed the advance of the Communist troops, preventing them from outflanking the forces of the Republic of Korea and the United Nations.
As a result, the Allied forces were able to take up positions at a defensible line further south and prevent a direct assault on capital Seoul.
Two Victoria Crosses were awarded for valour, including to the Glosters’ commander Lieutenant-Colonel James Carne, who was one of those taken prisoner.
Sombrely dressed in dark coat and tie and sporting a red poppy on his lapel, the Prime Minister was joined by the defence attache at the UK’s Seoul embassy, Brigadier David Greenwood, to lay a wreath of poppies at a memorial to the Glosters.
Mr Cameron – who is in South Korea for a summit of the G20 group of major economies – spent a few moments in silent contemplation at the memorial in what is now known by grateful Koreans as Gloster Valley.
Mr Cameron lays a wreath with British war veterans at the Korean National War Memorial in Seoul to UN troops who died in the conflict
The 29th Brigade, of which the Glosters formed part, suffered 1,091 casualties, dead, wounded or missing during the Imjin River offensive, while the Chinese casualties are thought to have reached around 10,000. A total of 1,078 UK troops died and 2,674 were wounded during the Korean War from 1950-53.
Mr Cameron later participated in a Remembrance Day ceremony at the Korean National War Memorial in Seoul.
Along with his Canadian and Australian counterparts Stephen Harper and Julia Gillard and French finance minister Christine Lagarde, the Prime Minister laid a wreath at the memorial to United Nations troops who died in the Korean War.
Mr Cameron met around 40 British veterans of the war who had come on a trip organised by the Korean Veterans Association and subsidised by the Seoul government.
Bob Huyton, 79, of Telford, Shropshire, was a 19-year-old on National Service when he served in Korea with the Royal Army Ordnance, helping transport the wounded back from the front line to Seoul.
‘It was a tough war’, he said. ‘We were caught up in two ambushes and I lost one of my best friends. I’m hoping to find his grave in the Pusan war cemetery before I go back.
‘I’ve been meaning to come back for a long time, and it’s been very emotional. You’d hardly recognise it was the same country, it’s changed so much, but all the memories come flooding back.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1328703/Remembrance-Day-Poppy-burning-Muslim-protesters-mar-Armistice-Day.html#ixzz14yu5rGqm
Thanks for this post, I’ll read it later. I note that the man with a sign about British soliders seems to be the Muslim Against Crusaders guy in this video:
I made a comment there; asked them what they are doing here in the West that they hate, and claimed they love death more than life. I got a good answer (but soon enough there was a death threat on my channel’s guest book).
It’s okay if they believe British soldiers burn *in hell*, not here on Earth, but they should recognize 8 or 9 out of 10 Afghans are pro-UN forces, and that Central Asia’s Muslims benefit from a UN victory. Fascist Islam have really no future!
Perhaps the yanks have an appropriate response to this behavior – read to the end . . .
The following words were on a sign in a business window in Florida:
“WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 AL QAEDA MUSLIMS THAN WITH ONE SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER!”
This sign was prominently displayed in the window of a business in Florida and you are probably outraged at the thought of such an inflammatory sign. However, we are a society which holds Freedom of Speech as one of our greatest liberties.
And after all, it is only a sign, right? You may ask : “What kind of business would dare post such a sign?”
Answer: A Funeral Home
Would love a picture of that.
These ungratful dirtbags enjoy the prosperity of the UK because of the sacrifice of the millions of British , Canadians, US, and allied military, who gave their lives or were maimed for life. These ungrateful slime, if they are not comfortable in the UK , I suggest that they migrate to the Islamic paradise of their choosing, devoid of personal freedom, liberty, and opportunity. They hate everything Western and British, but seem to have no problem bleeding the state, living on the dole , and acting like animals going on crime sprees. The only education these bastards seek is which European country has the best social programs. If more stringent rules were put into effect the parasites would stop migrating. The Liberal, Leftist, socialist, politicians who have prostituted themselves to the Islamic hoard for a few cheap votes must be voted out of office.
This is disgusting how the hell do they have the nerve to do such a drastic thing like this they are the ones that deserve to burn in hell! have some respect! We let them come over here into our countryside they should then appreciate our troops! Selfish basterds!
they deserve to be tortured for the rest of thier stinking live pieces of shit our men gave their today for their tomorrow we let them into our country give them benefits so they can sit on there fat arses and then they do this deprt these twats and kill eni1 who does this again
I am from Iraq and I believe the behaviour all these Muslim idiots are showing should be reason enough for them to be deported back to their fucking country they love and cherish so much, If they love Iraq and Afghanistan so fucking much then why do they leave it and put shame on every other Iraqi person in the UK, its people like these fuckers who make me ashamed to say i come from the same country as them! I wish they would all be deported or something so rest of the country can live in peace. I also think the government should do something about all this freedom of speech crap , why on earth are they willing to ban all English celebrations and events because “it may offend people from other countries” Well if they don’t like it then they can all shove off, I live in London and I respect and love what this country comes with and all its traditional celebrations, although I am not a Muslim I do have family who are and they too believe that it is very unfair for the British nation to give up their traditions such as Christmas plays and so on yet these so-called Muslims can Celebrate their religious events!?
Also if some one protests against their religion and faith they will get bombed! BULLSHIT! they are just threatened and the only way they can get people to side with their so-called Muslim rules is by threatening us.
The Government need to realise this is a country for the British nation and they should change NOTHING for anyone who can not appreciate and care for this country!
can you please explian to me why english people are being led away but these bastards are allowed to chant and show hate to our brave men. THIS IS ENGLAND
the muslims would hide their faces while burningg poppie and chanting ”British Soilders Burn In Hell” How Pathetic if You Hate The British Soilders So Much Then You Shoudnt Be Living In Our Country And Taking Our BRITISH Jobs Then Should You??! F*ck Of Back To Your Own Countryy Why Dont You.!
I find the protests to be sickening, but the outrage to be heartening, Thomas Jefferson said that the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots. The time is rapidly approaching when that will be necessary and when if you aren’t on the side of liberty you are against it, there will be no neutrals in the coming war.
adam u r rite i dont get it either!!! these protestss r distusing xx
There are people who have posted in support of free speach, and their right to protest. What these people dont understand is that they use these hard fought freedoms to spread their intolerant, and closed minded views. So, do you allow them to continue, knowing that if they were in power all of these freedoms would dissapear? There are some basic qualities as human beings, and if they are not observed, Then there is no further discussion, RESPECT FOR THE DEAD!!! I will never forget this day, and what shred of sympathy or goodwill I may have had for them burned up with those poppies. I hope they have finally awakened the british giant, I pray they have, because in a decade or so, it may be to weak to fight back…….Your brother in the colonies (canada)
Our soldiers fought for freedom of speech for them to abuse it. Soldiers died on both sides, can they not see that? These muslims put a bad face on islam and leave everyone to believe muslims are bad. Maybe if they read the Qu’ran
Emma, they have read the Koran that is why they are acting like they are, get a copy of the Koran that is published with the books in chronological order and read it. You do this and you will discover that the protesters are simply following Mohammad’s orders, orders to force the entire world to convert to Islam.
The thing is, Emma, the real inconvenient truth is, that the most radical and violent of the Muslims are simply following their religion. Osama bin Laden is a very good Muslim. He is not a criminal or a degenerate, he is everything a Muslim man should be. This is what the authorities so desperately want to prevent you from knowing. There is no making peace with these guys. Richard’s right. Read all about it in the Holy Quran!
Quote from the EDL Facebook page:
“Zero muslim Extremists charged but Kev and Tommy attempt to stop them burning a poppy and waving alqaeda flags and they are both charged!?! Tommy for assulting a police office because when he pulled a flag off the extremists it brushed across a police officers head! Kev has been charged with affray.”
Something seriously wrong with our police force these days. The muslims’ behaviour can be classed as incitement. Yet again though it is the EDL that gets arrested.
Emma, please read the koran. It is an eye opening book. It is mainly about hatred for the infidels and in fact in a comparsion with Mein Kampf by a Mr Hitler it has even more hatred towards Jews than that little nightmare of a book which is a best seller in the Middle east. With the Koran and Mein Kamph as their fave reads what else can a muslim but what you see on the streets of London. Makes perfect sense when you read it in the Koran or the Kuffar Killing Koran as I call it nowadays. Some witty person who deserves some credit somewhere out there in internet land once even called it Mein Karamph.
The Koran is also a dull read. I actually took my own advice once and started reading it but it was so dull and boring, I actually fell asleep. I gave up after that but now it is possible to read it in a lighter vein on the internet with the Skeptics Annotated Koran. Reading it that way means you can laugh at all the stupidities and ridiculous hatred as pointed out by the commentary.
Please consider buying and reading Bernard Payeur’s excellent analysis on the Koran called, ‘Pain, Pleasure and Prejudice. A complete layman’s guide to the Koran. In fact it is entertaining and thorough and puts it all in order. I very much recommend this way of reading the Koran which otherwise is nearly impossible as well as dull as wet paper towels, despite it being full of grotesque horror. Also, most Koran’s you find in English have been deliberately mistranslated in order to make it seem less awful.
One example is the line about beating your wife. The real Arabic Koran just says to beat her if she does not obey. The English translations talk about beating her lightly so that Islamic apologists can make it look like an innocent issue of the times it was written. Robert Spencer’s book on Koran deals with many of those issues superbly.
The Muslims that showed this astonishing amount of disrespect to our heros that gave their lives to save us should be immediately deported. That would be a true show of gratitude to our unsung heros, proving that we will defend their remembrance to the ground. Nobody has the right to disturb our memorial day. They are an absolute embarrassment and their lack of respect for our country should result in them being banned from sponging benefits and being sent back to where they belong. They don’t deserve to be here and they sure as hell arnt wanted here!!!
Thank you Chris, I appreciate you comment, but you should insist that they read the Koran in chronological order so they can see that the peaceful verses are the early ones and the violent ones are the latter ones. The violent verses are suppose to over ride the peaceful ones since Mohammad spoke them after the peaceful ones. Also if you read the Koran with an open mind it is obvious that he was making it up as he went along.
To the Iraqi who lives in the UK and condemns these pigs; I bet you anything, if you met these…vermin, it’d turn out they’d have British accents and had been brought up in the UK!
It’s scum like them that make my blood boil!
I know, I know…isn’t that the funniest thing? Imagine if someone you knew started insisting that God had declared him perfect, and that from now on you had to copy his every action, and do everything he said, or God would rip your guts out. No proof whatsoever, not one person saying they saw anything, no miracles – just, ‘believe me’. Imagine simply falling for that. I think one of the reasons Muslims are so uptight about apostasy is that deep down, they are embarrassed about being such gullible boobs, and they know that if Muslims were allowed to just quit Islam, they would start waking up and the whole thing would fall apart in a generation. I mean, anybody can plainly see that Mohammed just plain made the whole thing up in order to get an endless supply of free money and beautiful women. Anyone can see that.
That is a very astute observation, the death to apostates is the reason that Mohammad’s cult didn’t fall apart after his death as the other cults do. It was probably started to keep the other criminals he had recruited to serve has his troops, and the desert tribes were never the most reliable of allies so he had to do something to keep them in line.
I’m a muslim American and I agree that this group of so-called “muslims” have been utterly disrespectful towards Armistice day. You have to know that the majority of muslims are against this sort of behaviour and Islam teaches us to live in harmony with other faiths and societies. If you go back in Islamic history then you will find that wherever there were Christians and Jews within muslim lands, the muslims would allow them to practice their faith. There would be no questions asked. For hundreds of years the muslims have lived in peace with fellow Christians and Jews.
It’s only in recent times that a huge turn came after a small group of extremists (which in fact do not follow the teachings of islam) converted Islam (which by the way means peace) into an ideology of their own. Only to suit their needs. All extremists are NOT muslims. They are in fact an evil in disguise of religion. And it’s unfortunate that the media is giving them center stage. These young British muslims have been brain washed by psycho clerics, who are fullfilling their agenda by causing disruption in society. I urge all western muslims to understand the real meaning of Islam, which is to live in peace with everyone. And I request all non-muslims to please keep the peace.
Sahar, did I just hear you say that Islam means “peace”? Respectfully, I beg to differ. Islam, I believe, means “submission”. I also know that in Islam it is permitted to lie if it is for the purpose of making peace, so you’re forgiven. Peace.
In fact Islam comes from the Arabic root of “Salema” which means peace. In the context of submission then Islam means submission to God and therefore we are invited to submit to the good will of God and obey His law. I hope that makes sense.
I am really disgusted and shocked that these muslim protestors are allowed to disrespect our country in such an open show of complete disregard . This is in my opinion a huge problem that will end up causing major racial tensions, as a nation we like to think of ourselves as open to other peoples views and lifestyles and accomodate different nationalities and religions without too much fuss, but this is going to far. When are we going to say enough. I am sick of all the changes that seem to be put upon us, people are proud to be british, but its been taking away from us for many years, and as we are such an accepting bunch of folk, we have allowed it, but come on this is ridiculous, this has got to stop. When we go abroad for our holidays, we abide by different cultures, we dress accordingly and live by their rules and if we dont we are arrested and punished, however in this country, we have traditions, that we are no longer allowed to celebrate because we may offend a particular race, well i have only one thing to say when in Rome………and that should apply to us all..STOP TAKING THE PISS PLEASE
Sahar is ignorant, or lying…
“You have to know that the majority of muslims are against this sort of behaviour and Islam teaches us to live in harmony with other faiths and societies.”
SHOW US THE TEACHINGS!!!
The muzzies say,” get your hands of muslim lands.” Fine just get your f***ing feet off our country first!
It’s obvious that you suffer from Islamaphobia and unfortunately there is nothing I can do about this illness. As you have not read the Quran then I will quote the following verses from it:
“But if the enemy incline towards peace, thou shall also incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all there is).” (Noble Quran, 8:61)
“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)”
“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)
It is people like you who add oil to the fire and as long you will keep a closed mind towards others then there will undoubtedly be hatred among people.
You are quoting from the section on spoils of war and booty. The verse before 8:61 (8:60, duh) goes…”Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know…” What the verse you quoted means, with all the aforementioned steeds of war snorting, is that they don’t mind if one just goes ahead and surrenders. Well, thanks a lot. You don’t mind if we just give up. How thoughtful of you. How bloody considerate. How would you like my wife and my daughters? Gift wrapped? Naked? Here’s the keys to the house. Sorry ’bout the mess… Now that I’m a Dhimmi, what would you prefer I call you? Sir…Master…Excellency perhaps?
I don’t speak Arabic, Sahar, and I never will, but I have picked up a few words along the way. Jihad and Taqiyya come to mind.
As far as I am concerned Islam is a purse string suture in the rectum of human progress. That suture needs to be snipped without delay before the effluent building up behind it, ‘The Demented Slaves of Allah’, poison the whole of our body politic.
I see that a Moslem disinformation agent is active, I first heard about this tactic when reading about the Nazi’s use of propaganda during WWII, it worked them but doesn’t work when talking about Islam to people who have read the Koran. The Moslems are so use to having the dictates of the Koran run their life they forget that other people think for themselves.
Seeing as you are giving only part of the story, then how about I go back a few verses and quote:
If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous (Noble Quran, 8:58)
Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them) (Noble Quran, 8:59)
Now I will explain to you in basic english the meanings of these verses. It is already known that the West are a treacharous nation. I can give you a few examples from your own country:
1. HM the Queen. Committed six acts of treason signing EU treaties that abolish your British nation. She is the only monarch to have broken her Coronation oath. Failed as the ultimate check and balance, failed to insist on a national ballot for the abolition of your nation.
2. Ted Heath. One act of treason. Lied that his European Communities Act 1972 would not abolish your sovereignty, and started the entire illegal EU process.
3. Tony Blair. Three acts of treason, three EU treaties, enthusiastic implementer of EU laws disguised as British laws, eg ID cards; enforcer of crippling EU regulations.
4. John Major. Treason with the Maastricht treaty and other actions.
5. Margaret Thatcher. Treason with the Single European Act. Now regrets signing it.
The above five people have all committed treason, and prosecutions were pending. Their crimes are sufficiently serious as they were facing life imprisonment. So Tony Blair and the Queen repealed the treason laws in the Crime and Criminal Evidence Act 1998.
Therefore, if a nation produces a bunch of traitors then are we expected to bow down to them?? Obviously not! These verses remind us that God does not approve of traitors as these are enemies of society. Hence we are told to erradicate this evilness.
And for your information “Jihad” means “to struggle”, usually for the sake of God. I do not blame you for being lured by the media. It’s their job to show you one side of the story.
I do not expect you to embrace Islam and in fact I don’t expect anything from you. At the end of the day muslims have as much right to live on this earth just as christians and jews.
Have a good day
Sahar you do love to distort history don’t you? Try you lies on people that are willing to believe them.
Call me whatever you want, but I know my religion more than you. You have your mind set to hate muslims. Fair enough. Have a nice day
I don’t hate Moslems, I just don’t want them forcing me to try and live under their laws, and that is what you and all of your ilk are trying to force everyone to do. You act as if anyone who doesn’t want to live under you religious laws hates you, when you actions of trying to force people to live your way shows that you hate other people. Have a nice day.
Please, not the one about Jihad meaning struggle -like losing weight or quitting smoking. Why can’t you understand? I know how to read and write. I’ve read the Quran. I know what Jihad means. Stop prevaricating and dissembling. No one’s going to buy that stuff on this site. Try CNN Comments. There’s a whole whack o’ dumbos over there.
Agony Aunt I guarantee you 100% they did. I would also wager they know it a lot better than you do.
Just to clarify Jihad is not something as trivial as quitting smoking or losing weight. It’s actually a struggle for God by either financial, economical or political means.
I don’t want you to convert to Islam. In fact you’re doing that by yourselves. America has the highest number of people converting to Islam everyday.
Eeyore, you’re absolutely not making any sense.
Anyway, wish you all a very peaceful and happy life. It was nice knowing your opinions.
i ma am shocked how the muslim protesters are allowed to be so disrespectful to all the brave men who fought in the wars to keep us safe !
Looooool!! Peace y’all! 😉
I have fuckin had it with these white scumbags who think they’re superior than the rest of the world! I’m a black guy (aka nigger in white man’s language) and I have seen how these white scum treat the rest of the world. No fuckin respect for anyone!! They’re a bunch of racist bastards who want every single country to end up like them. Without culture, without tradition, without fathers and without religion! They want our women to end up in prostitution just like how they sold their women! Well I got news for you fuckin pigheads! Whether we’re black, arab, muslim, buddhist or inuits, WE’RE NOT GONNA BE UNDER YOUR BASTARD CONTROL! SO FUCK ALL YOU WHITE MOTHERFUCKERS!!
perhaps when england gets out of muslim countries such as iraq and afghanistan then they will get out of britain.
remember muslims are only in here because of england invading the world and ruling india
And top of the morning to you too, lewis. What’s your problem, man? I know you’re Canadian, ’cause no one else in the world has ever heard of the word Inuit. White people don’t go around calling black people the N-word, especially not in Canada. Why are you saying they do when you know that they don’t? Why are you saying extreme stuff that you absolutely know is not true? Stop doing that! Why does it not occur to people like you that if you have to lie all the time to make your points, your points may not be valid. Think about it.
Hey Ravi that might happen, and I might find a lottery ticket worth hundreds of millions of dollars, but they are both about the same probability. The Moslems are in Europe and Britain because they want to get out of the third world countries they came from, once in Britain in a large enough group they are trying to follow the Koran and force all of Britain to submit to Islam. Everyone posting on this blog has read the Koran and knows about about the disinformation campaigns that you use, as a earlier post says try peddling your line on CNN, the useful idiots hang out there.
Lol at Chris! Canadian??? Ur one fucked up dude! I’m American and you white basatrds are known for your racist nature! Even if we all end up bleaching the fuck our of our skins, we ain’t ever gonna be accepted in your gay white world! I don’t wanna be ruled by WHITE MOTHERFUCKERS WHO ONLY KNOW WORDS LIKE NIGGA AND JIGGABOOO SO FUCK YOU!
Oh and another thing gayboy Chris – I am sure you’re a Nazi German. All your bullshit talk points to you being a Nazi! So stop pretending to be a British and just accept your Nazi ancestry. Asshole!
Lewis I don’t know where you are from but I don’t hear anyone using the N word and I have heard the latter insult outside of old movies, are you sure you aren’t have hallucinations? As with the other two provocateurs you are advised to visit CNN, the people who will believe you hang out there.