Hat tip Grace
|March 27, 2009
CAIRO — In an unprecedented move by a Western Christian leader, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has praised British Muslims for bringing back religion and ethics into public life.“I think Islam has made a very significant contribution to getting a debate about religion into public life,” Williams, the leader of the Anglican Church, told the Muslim News.
“And I think it’s very right that we should have these debates and discussions between Muslims and Christians and others in public.”
Britain is home to more than two million Muslims.
This is the first time a Western Christian leader thanks Muslims for bringing back religion to a secular Western society.
Last November, Head of Vatican’s Department for Interfaith Contacts Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran praised Muslims for bringing religion back into the public life in Europe.
Williams, the leader of the Anglican Church, lamented the unfriendly atmosphere for faith in British society.
“If we are not allowed as religious people to talk and argue about these issues in public then I think society has become a rather unfriendly place for religious people and that’s not helpful change.”
Williams, criticized the West’s Christian leaders for failing to bring their societies away for the devastating and dominating materialism.
“(They were unable to) turn around our society which was being driven by materialism,” he said.
“(I hope) to see leaders listening specifically to the more ethical challenges that faith brings.”
Williams called for bolstering Muslim-Christian cooperation to serve the well being of the whole community.
“The idea that what’s good for me and what’s good for you belongs together,” he said.
“Both Muslims and Christians have a very strong sense of God’s will being done in community, when we really follow the needs of the community and work for one another on that in the will of God.”
The Anglican leader, however, admitted that the Christian Muslim Forum, which he initiated in 2001 for brining UK Muslims and Christians together, had not reached the grassroots so far.
“The conversation of the elite and intellectuals isn’t in itself going to change anything,” he pointed out.
“We’ve got to deal with it and complicated questions, but we have to make good neighbors.”
The Archbishop stressed the significant role of faith schools in enhancing interfaith dialogue and community harmony.
“Keep the presence of religion in our educational institutions and I think there is a lot that can be done there,” he said.
Williams has repeatedly defend faith schools in Britain as contributing to the promotion of religious tolerance.
He asserted that faith schools are already proven in their ability to reach out across faith boundaries and help to build confidence in minority communities.
Look, if the guy respects Muslims so much that must mean that he “accepts” Mohammed as a Prophet of God, and also that Jesus Christ is not divine – only also a Prophet.
This means the guy is a traitor to Christians the world over – he should be FORCED to resign as such. Upon a time he would have been executed as a Heretic. In years to come his kind will have the fortune to be executed as Kaffir. He is a traitor to Britain and the Western world in general.
Oh – and have you ever noticed it’s ALWAYS the Christians who reach out to Muslims for talks? The Mozzas do NOT want to know – they see anyone who isn’t on their page as an enemy. FACT.
I hardly know where to begin. First of all, saying that Islam has made a contribution by initiating a debate is hardly saying that Islam is within itself, a good thing.
Secondly, Have we become a monolithic culture who cannot tolerate dissent ? This archbishop fellow isn’t even actually dissenting. He’s just suggesting “at least we are talking about it” and because he isn’t scrreaming at Muslims, he’s making headlines.
Thirdly, the leaps of “logic” wherein the above commentor says “that must mean” and then makes all sorts off odd Muslim-like accusations about denying Jesus’ divinity… well that’s just weird.
Look… Islam is a backwards, superstitious, cruel and monolithic anachronism.
I’m not sure that we should fight such threats by emulating them. If the Muslims cannot tolerate free speech, we must champion free speech. If the Muslims want to kill people for their religious beliefs, we must openly tolerate religious beliefs.
It the Muslims get offended by trivia like the Danish cartoons, we must not take ourselves so seriously.
We must be dilligent, certain and we must live with the strength of our convictions, but we must not act like Muslims in doing so.
So let’s review.
The Archbishop of Canterbury is himself, an anachronism and the head of a church that King Henry started so that he could divorce one of his wives.
But he isn’t advocating Islam, and he isn’t denying the divinity of Jesus… and even if he were, so what? This isn’t Saudi Arabia and we can tolerate dissent.
He’s just saying “at least we are talking about it”.
Islam is a backwards superstition that tolerates nothing else. We should stand against intolerance, stand against superstition, and stand against theocracy in favor of secular politics.
After all, we are not Muslims. No one can be a traitor to Christianity. Not even Judas Iscariot. We should not call for the death of people we perceive as being blasphemous.
Also… just throwing this in… We should be able to discern for ourselves that this archbishop fellow is not praising Islam.
That’s the other good thing about Western civilization. We can read. Right?
Munir good post. On the surface its accurate as well. However I will never allow the totalitarian ideology of Islam or any other totalitarian ideology to flourish merely because we claim tolerance. There are times where intolerance of specific pernicious things need to be systemic. Now is one of those times. Islam is a serious threat to tolerance itself. If we do not activly show that it will not be accepted in place of western values we will not get that choice again. I am intolerant towards Islam. Islam openly preaches genocide and murder and hatred as part of its central dogma. To claim that what the Arch bishop said is good merely because it creates dialogue is like saying giving up Czechoslovakia to Hitler was good cause we got a piece of paper.
What is this fool trying to acheive this time, there will never be tollerance between islam & Christianity, look at the history books.. Islam has never throughout history lived alongside any other culture on the planet without trying to take over.Is Britain any different? Do you really think the muslim population are here simply by accident? Our government is simply a push-over with no backbone to do what is moraly right for the British people.
As for the ‘British muslim’ sorry, there is No such thing, once a muslim, a person follows the laws of islam if you want to know what that is read the book they value so highly.
Before the Archbishop makes any more un-educated sweeping statements on how we can all live together in peace & harmony i suggest he takes a walk on his own one night in a muslim populated part of Britain & see the harmony first hand for himself.
Lets get it straight Munir, the Arch Dhimwit of C*nterbury is a complete and utter left libweral idiot. He continues to lick the rusty bullet hole of Islam and his rhetoric is that of someone who has, quite frankly, lost the plot. At best he is a LIAR. Since when did Islam make a worthwhile contribution to anything in recent history?
“I think Islam has made a very significant contribution to getting a debate about religion into public life,”…….Since when? All I’ve ever heard muslims do is whine about how hard done by they all are and all I’ve ever seen is muslims using the slightest excuse to go off on outrage marches…shouting, “behead this, burn that, kill whoever and throwing accusations around, (which by the way, they should be made to prove in a court of law under our laws of …Defamation of character, Libel and Slander). Islam doesn’t encourage debate….it’s terrified of it. Why do you think that the UN Human Rights Council of which the Islamic countries and their friends (all of which have the most abismal record of Human Rights abuses) have just secured a majority vote on making it illegal to criticise religion (especially Islam)? I’m not a particularly religious type but out of all the belief systems in the world, Islam is the most intolerant, obnoxious, backward facing, murderous, self serving antagonistic religion in the world today. When it drags itself out of the 6th century and reviews its so called holy book, as others have done, then it might be acceptable. Oh! I forgot, it can neither be altered, added to nor taken away from because it’s the word of Allah as told to his Prophet….Yeah, right. I’ve studied it and it’s so full of contradictions, guesswork and myth that it’s little wonder they don’t want it held up to scrutiny and they get upset when you point these things out to them..
Islam making a contribution to intelligent debate…I think NOT.
UnionJack asks… “since when”?
Well, Jack… since now. You and I, we are discussing religion, and Islam is the impetus for our discussion.
I’m not advocating tolerating intolerance, btw.. not at all. I am in favor of being better than intolerance. Now don’t get caught in semantics. When it comes down to it, if hijabs are a matter of choice, that’s fine… but they can’t stand in bank lines with masks on, or have a hijab on their driver’s license.
Nor can taxi drivers refuse service to seeing eye dogs. If Folks can’t follow the rules, then they can be prosecuted just like anyone.
Muslims are a backwards superstitious people who think hitting women with sticks is their god’s will.
What I’m saying is let’s not call for the death of people based on their religious beliefs, and let’s not have religion dictate public policy.
… and let’s read well enough that we can tell what a person is saying.
Where I live, I am beset with religious laws… and let me assure you, it sucks.
The religion around here is oppressive, self righteous, backwards, and while it is not usually directly violent, it has been in the past, and there are plenty of hot heads hereabouts who would call for the deaths of people based on their religious beliefs.
That sure is a very stupid archbishop in England. Why does he call Islam a religion when in reality Islam is a very cruel ideology very much like atheistic Communism and atheistic Nazism? When did the cruelties of Islamic Sharia Law become a religion?
Islam stones women to death. Islam destroys the genitals of little girls. Islam cuts off hands, feet, and gouges out eyes of petty thieves. Islam condemns 75 year old ladies to 40 lashes for hosting two young males. Islam allows old Muslim male pig scum perverts to legally kidnap little girls as young and eight years old, and then legally rape them.
Islam is a religion? Stupid Dhimmi Archbishop of England, why don’t you educate yourself? Or could it be that you are an Islamist with perverted ulterior motives?
Stone him, now!!
Let’s get it straight. We don’t have to tolerate evil. Islam is evil to the core. Islam is brutal, deceptive, cruel. Islam disseminates pure evil.
The following is taken from The Islamic War Manual, sometimes called the Qur’an: “Infidels are your sworn enemies,”(Sura 4 Verse 101).
“Make war on the infidels around you,” (Sura 9 Verse 123 and Sura 66 Verse 9).
“Be ruthless to the infidels,”(Sura 48 Verse 29).
“Fight those who believe not Allah nor the Last Day,”(Sura 9 Verse 29).
“Strike off the heads of the infidels in battle,”(Sura 47 Verse 4).
“Never be a helper to the disbelievers,”(Sura 28 Verse 26).
“Kill the disbeliever wherever you find them,”(Sura 2 Verse 191).
“The disbelievers are the worst of beasts in the eyes of Allah,”(Sura 8 Verse 55).
If Christians dont like materialsm that much, they should renounce it themselves and live like Jesus in poverty. Dont see too many of them doing that. And regarding thanking islam to bring religion back into society: yeah thanks for making us go back to medieval times!
What an idiot. Religion is a brain disorder.
Joe, you must have a brain disorder if you don’t differentiate when evaluating religions. Some religions are good. Some so-called religion like Islam is bad.
For example my religion teaches: “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not steal.” What evil do you see in that unless you’re an atheist? On the other hand, Islam teaches “Fight the infidels until all opposition ends, and all submit to Allah,”(Sura 8 Verse 39). I hope you can see the difference. If not it’s because you have a brain disorder.
But some atheist ideologists like atheistic Nazism and atheistic Communism can be very bad, downright evil. These two atheistic ideologies murdered approximately 120,000,000 people. These two ideologists were very much like Islam.
War and Hate
When are Anglicans going to speak out against this looney? I cannot believe for a single moment this willfully blind dhimwhit speaks for the global congregation.
Oust the fool. I’m sure some village wants their idiot back.
Unfortunately, you all misunderstand Islam. “Fight the infidels until all opposition ends, and all submit to Allah” This quote is incorrectly translated and also read out of context. Islam also preaches against killing, and states that should one kill a human being without just cause it is as if he has killed all of humanity.
Islam does however, preach against turning the other cheek to someone that attacks you, the payback or retaliation is that of the like, if the cause is just.
“Kill the disbeliever wherever you find them,”(Sura 2 Verse 191). This is also out of context, You fail to mention the previous verse, “Fight those in the path of God that fight against you, and do not transgress…” This clearly only allows the muslims to fight combatants that initiate fights against them.
Regarding the rights of women, as a non-muslim woman, I have come to know and experience that Islam offer women more rights than any system or religion on earth. Inheritance may be in the ratio of 2:1 (male:female), but a female muslim has absolutely no responsibilities, she does not have to provide for the clothing, schooling, cleaning etc. or any other provision for the family, this is the obligation of the husband. A muslim female’s gifts to her as solely for her, including anything given to her during, before or after marriage. She may invest and protect herself with such. Although muslim females may not marry non-muslim males; this law is only there to protect the female. All of Islam’s laws are there to protect the female, I am married to a muslim man and this is allowed, since I now fall in Islamic jurisdiction and has thus been to my benefit and protection. I am no longer as just a beautiful sex object, I have rights and my voice is heard, I am respected, I am well-cared for (even though I am not a muslim, my husband must still provide all the necessities for the wife and family, since Islam commands this for marrying people of the Book).
And the only reason I can see that you people are so concerned with Islam is because you fear justice and order in the world. If all muslims just behaved the way islam really teaches them to, the world would be better for all. You can’t judge a car by its driver!!
Islam is prevailing and is affirmed to be the fasting growing religion, many reverts just happen to be great intellectuals. No wonder you all fear the muslims so much is because you wish to remain ignorant.
“Islam also preaches against killing, and states that should one kill a human being without just cause it is as if he has killed all of humanity.”
“Just cause,” is manslaughter or for mischief in the land. Criticizing islam. A totalitarian ideology.
“For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.”