Gypsies, multiculturalism, theft.

Here is an interesting article from the Norwegian Press. The claim is made, and to be frank correctly, that forcing children into crime is a part of Gypsy culture.

Well let’s ask any non-Gypsy that has fallen asleep on a Spanish train and see if they concur.

In the countless arguments I used to have with people about how not only is multiculturalism an oxymoron, I also argue that no one really believes in it. When people speak of multiculturalism they typically mean that they get pleasure in feeling morally superior to the imagined cultural-monogamist (read conservative as they project them) by eating Chinese food or listening to anyone other than Pat Boone.

These same people however would have to restrain themselves from calling the board of health if they saw 25 rotting duck carcasses sitting on the front steps of a Chinese grocery store, covered in flies in 90 degree heat and direct sunlight. Something which is quite definitely a part of Chinese culture. At least in China town in Ottawa.

Law, I try and point out to people, is nothing more and nothing less than the cultural values of a given people codified on paper and perhaps sanctified through process or decree. Often subject to change, interpretation but nonetheless, a codified set of rules which indeed define the culture where the culture…

…dictates how people are to treat each other within groups and between demographics such as age, gender etc.

…dictates how people are to view goods and property. How can a think be said to be yours. Is your property yours to the extent you are allowed to defend it from those who would take it? Is your property subject to seizure from another merely because they belong to another demographic, IE, aristocracy, royalty, amber-indians etc. Different cultures therefore, have different laws. One only needs to remember that Europeans actually colonized parts of the middle East and Africa in order, initially anyway, to end the widespread practice of slavery which is still very common amongst Arab Muslims and even overt in some countries like Mauritania and Sudan etc.

Yet when I spoke to multicultural apologists and advocators about theft as part of Gypsy culture they would attempt to scuffle their way out of it by calling me racist, or ignorant as they typically do not have the imagination to recognize that humanity can have more than one view on what it means to own something.

Not that Gypsies would tolerate you stealing from them. Break into a Gitano’s camper and steal his guitar and see if he waits to call the police or just maybe offers the thing to you. I doubt even Lloyds of London would insure you if you planned to do that. So clearly Gypsies have the same understanding of property ownership ‘Payos’ (Gypsy term of contempt for people who work for a living) do, but only when it comes to them. So yes, culture does dictate law and this is why multiculturalism is an oxymoron.

You simply cannot have more than one code of conduct, understanding of the way people and property are to be respected, in one geographical area.

You cannot.

Below the fold, Michael Laudahn was kind enough to do a proper, non-machine translation of this article:

This is Roma culture, not human trafficking’

The family’s lawyer rejects the notion that this is a case of human trafficking, pointing at the condition that Romas always have traveled.

[Image caption:] The public prosecutor has pleaded for 26 years and 2 months of prison together against six Romanians of the Roma ethnic group, for human trafficking involving children. According to police, they have abused the underage girls in their travelling band by making them beg and steal, in addition to forced marriages and sexual assaults. Carl-Christian Grythe Hoff is the lawyer of this Romanian woman.

‘They originate from poor conditions in Romania. The children are not being abused, but they contribute to improve the living conditions of the entire family’, says Are Bohne, lawyer of one of the accused.

‘But the girls are also exposed to sexual assaults and forced marriages?’

‘In the Roma culture, children are being considered adults when they are pubescent. It is normal that they marry at an early age.’

‘But according to international conventions and Norwegian law, coming-of-age takes place at 18?’

‘That is not so in Romania. There, 13- or 14-year olds are not being considered children’, says Bohne.

The culture argument is being rejected by international experts.

‘The culture can never be accepted as an excuse for assaults or crime’, says Carolina Lasen Diaz, Council of Europe.

‘The indicted often argue, claiming this were part of their culture. But this doesn’t make it more legal’, says team leader human trafficking at Europol, Steve Harvey.

Why were they not discovered if they committed crime in almost all of southern Norway’s police districts? Politiadvokat Rudolf Christoffersen says this happens, because neither police nor children protection agencies are able to recognize that children can be abused by their own family.

‘Is it fear of stigmatizing a persecuted ethnic group which has kept police from intervening?’

‘Yes, it is. Most of the time in this case, we were accused of being racists, and to have arrested the accused because they are roma. The truth is exactly the opposite. You cannot abuse children and then hide yourself behind a culture. The roma people’s children have the same right for protection like other children. Anything else would be discrimination’, says Christoffersen.

Neither the children’s department nor the children protection agency’s Oslo emergency response team wish to comment if the children protection agency has failed in roma children cases. Chef Helge Skjetne, municipal council section having responsibility for children’s protection in the capital rejects that Oslo’s children protection agency had failed in roma children cases, provided they were in a position to intervene.

The two youngest girls in the Bergen case suffer from trauma after what they have experienced, they feel abandoned by the family, according to their assigned lawyers. The mother accused thinks her daughter lied, in order to obtain material goods. The verdict will be pronounced in july.

In may, Nova researcher Ada Engebrigtsen published the research report ‘Tiggerbander og kriminelle bakmenn eller fattige EU-borgere? Myter og realiteter om utenlandske tiggere i Oslo’ [Beggar gangs and criminal backers or poor EU citizens? Myths and realities about foreign beggars in Oslo]. The report comes up during the defence’ pleading.

In her report, she writes: ‘As a principal rule, beggars are ‘independent business families’ and not victims of criminal networks, who profit from their work’.

Moreover: ‘Human trafficking can happen in this ethnic group too, but this is rather the exception’.

She points at other research which says that the myth according to which beggars can be human trafficking victims does not correspond to the facts of reality.

Engebrigtsen has calculated that beggars in Norway on average earn between 20 and 40 crowns per hour, and she thinks that the surplus is not big enough to be interesting for backers.

H/T Fjordman

About Eeyore

Canadian artist and counter-jihad and freedom of speech activist as well as devout Schrödinger's catholic

17 Replies to “Gypsies, multiculturalism, theft.”

  1. take precautions so they don’t steal (up to the reader’s imagination), make friends with some of them, also helps a lot. discover how nice they can be.

  2. Rainer Friman, Finnish singer who is also gypsy, said on one newspaper interview that roma people should integrate, go to school and work. Saying that angered many of the gypsies, one of them Miranda Vuolasranta, who also is influental Roma figure, said this about what Friman proposed: It’s is a threat to our whole culture. So working, integrating and studying is not something they want to do because it is not in their culture to do that.
    Only few percent of gypsies are working in Finland.

  3. “Law, I try and point out to people, is nothing more and nothing less than the cultural values of a given people codified on paper and perhaps sanctified through process or decree. ”

    Very good point. Many people don’t understand that the laws that we have, what we think is right and wrong, derive from our cultures. Change the culture and the people, and you will change the laws as well.

  4. The Gypsies have always refused to integrate into Western Civilization, they are a perfect example of why multiculturalism will never work.

  5. Yes theft, petty crime and confidence crime was and is a part of Gypsy culture. Gypsies have an old legend about their origin that some gypsies stole the nails from Christ’s cross while he was crucified and thus lessened his pain.

    That does not mean all engage in it. It does not mean all clans engage in it and it does not mean that American Gypsies still engage in it. But they most certainly did and it absolutely was an overt and integral part of their culture and not considered shameful.

    Peter Mass wrote the non fiction book King of The Gypsies in 1974 (it was made into a feature drama film – so it’s easy to confuse the two). He did extensive research and became quite close with prominant members of the American Gypsy community. In the book he discusses how one man became the most influential gyspy and had the goal of getting his fellow gypsies to assimilate more.

    But it was published around 1976 and the various crimes engaged in may not be as common today.

    I myself used to see little children begging in Boston “for the indians” by which they meant Native Americans. These children were herded by old women that didn’t look like Native American women at all but like hollywood stereotypes of Old Gypsy women.

    I then read in The King Of The Gyspsies that this was a common scam gypsies used in the Boston Area.

    I don’t know about the movie but the book King of the Gypsies is a fascinating read. But if you read it keep in mind it is at least a generation out of date.

    Gypsies are originally from India. Their reliance upon spoken history makes dating a bit diffucult for sure but it looks like they may have originally left India because they were fleeing the Hindu holocaust.

    Just a few minutes of reading appears to bear this out. They are from northern India, where the first invasions started and they did leave in the time of the islamic anti Hindu jihads. I don’t know if it was all at once or over a period of time.

    various sources will say the muslim invasions took place in the 7th century and from the 13 to 15th centuries. BUT that isn’t quite accruate.

    From Wikipedia on the Romani People: “The emigration from India likely took place in the context of the raids by Mahmud of Ghazni” in around the 11th century.

    Mahmud launched 17 expeditions into north India and did quite a bit of conquering. The page says (and we all know how accurate wikipedia is on some subjects) Hindus et al at this time were eventually desegnated as “people of the book” but ONLY AFTER extensive “destruction” had taken place.

    So yes, the Gypsies were fleeing the Muslim Invasion of India.

  6. Omni recently had a huge pity piece about Gypsies who have been forced out of Canada. Canada is taking the position that they cannot be considered refugees.

    When I felt myself being swayed by the hugely convincing material I remembered an experience I had at Disneyland. When I was there years ago they suggested you use a Disneyland credit card, no cash or regular credit cards to protect them against theft. I found that rather thought provoking, I don’t come from a place that is well known for pick pockets. While in a store 2 little children ( probably 5 & 6 years old) sidled up to me, one on either side. Immediately I was alarmed, something wasn’t right, so I decided to do a test and moved across the store. Sure enough these two were soon flanking me again. I did this several times and then ended the game by walking quickly out of the store. That was my first and only experience with gypsy child thieves.

  7. Richard “The Gypsies have always refused to integrate into Western Civilization,”

    Yes Gypsies do and/or did belive non assimilation was an essential part of their culture. But governments have instituted various assimilation programs that do work – and prominant members of the Gypsie community (as discussed in The King of the Gypsies by Peter Maas) promote complete assimilation.

    The Europian understanding of Multiculturalism does not quite apply to Gypsies as both governments and prominant gypsies (i.e. real community leaders) promote assimilation.

  8. Love said, “take precautions so they don’t steal (up to the reader’s imagination), make friends with some of them, also helps a lot. discover how nice they can be.”

    I HOPE you are being sarcastic. If not then please tell me exactly how you go about getting to know someone and remaining friendly with someone who you are worried about STEALING from you?

    The mindset of making friends with someone who you believe will steal from you is totally alien to me.

  9. Actually I know a few Gypsies myself. The ones I know, happen to be very successful in their respective fields, and these fields are in fact, direct cultural output of Gypsy culture at another level. These people are fantastic characters in many ways. Kind and generous to a fault. They have invited me to come stay at their homes and offered me the benefits of any connections they may have, which might benefit me in my field.

    They would certainly never steal. Nonetheless, theft is part and parcel of Gypsy culture as is con games and crime for profit in general, even though it is not universal amongst the Gitano.

  10. Nations are defined by borders, language, and culture”.

    And in the present situation they are being defined by religion (culture), race(ethnicity), and language last. This situation is an order of magnitude more explosive then anything in our history.

    Even if we were not heading to a low grade civil war, a multicultural society based on the present mix, can never have internal cohesiveness. Each segment of society is in competition with others, and politicians by their very nature and requirement, will appease one segment or the other. This leads to ill will and bitterness. It also becomes impossible for a group or individuals to sacrifice their own interest for the common good -thus leading to an end of the nation.

    Multicultural nation may just work as long as there is an abundance of goodies to go around. But once hard times come over, as they must, it will lead to increasing competition, leading to low grade civil war, and finally war itself.

  11. DP if the civil war remains a low grade war it will last all of this century, if it is a hot civil war it will last a few years but the fall out will last the rest of this century.

  12. “Not that Gypsies would tolerate you stealing from them. Break into a Gitano’s camper and steal his guitar and see if he waits to call the police or just maybe offers the thing to you. I doubt even Lloyds of London would insure you if you planned to do that. So clearly Gypsies have the same understanding of property ownership ‘Payos’ (Gypsy term of contempt for people who work for a living) do, but only when it comes to them.”

    Did the Gypsies copy their morality from Muslims? Are they enemies?

  13. Actually, the Gypsies have the Muslims to thank for their very existence.

    Gypsies are a Hindu, East Indian diaspora who left India to escape what is likely the biggest genocide in world history since homo-sapiens took out the Neanderthals.

    The Muslim slaughter of Hindus when they took over India.

  14. Richard

    Indeed. I would prefer a hot war then a low grade civil war. The former at least has the advantage that only a single generation is affected, and the damage cam be undone to an extent.

    As for the long term consequence – it will lead to the worst polarisation of the world ever, even surpassing times of the Jihad and the retaliatory Crusades.

    As for gypsies. Theft is part of the culture of gypsies, as well as Muslims. Muslims get their culture from nomadic Arab tribes of the desert, where theft and bigandage was, and still is, an honourable profession- Mohammed practised it, so what could be wrong. So who are we in multicultural Europe to even suggest that these tribals are morally in the wrong.

  15. We aren’t allowed to support and push our cultural values while the other do, that is why the cultures of theft and violence are growing, as the left pushes us further from civilization the home grown barbarians are recreating our past. A past that the people attacking us would be wise if they studied.

  16. You aren’t allowed to support and push your cultural values because the Left considers you to be an “oppressor”. Simply reverse the double standards of the Left.

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